Two letters on guests and prayer/church

[conuly]

1. Dear Miss Manners: I am expecting houseguests, and their visit will include a Sunday morning. Normal Sunday mornings for us include a church service; we only stay home if someone in the house is ill or the roads are unsafe due to weather.

Our guests will be invited to join us at church, but if they decline, ought I stay at home with them? Or is it acceptable to leave them at the house with a generous supply of coffee, pastries and the Sunday paper?

There is no need for you to skip church. Miss Manners assures you that a quiet Sunday, with ample provisions, is the answer to your guests’ wishes — if not their prayers.

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2. Dear Amy: All of the kids in our family were brought up with religion not being a part of our lives. We are all over 60 now and recently my wife and I were invited over for Easter dinner at my sister’s place. Suddenly, my brother-in-law starts saying grace. It’s not important to me, so I just sat there. After dinner was over, my sister said to me, “You could at least have bowed your head.”

Religion was never a part of our family and I felt it wrong for her to all of a sudden expect me to have to bend to their new beliefs. I don’t care if they say grace, it’s just not my thing. Your thoughts?
— No Grace for Me

No Grace: Ironic, isn’t it — that you were guests at this house for Easter dinner, which — last time I checked — is a Christian holiday. It’s simple good manners to respect other people’s faith practices, especially while in their homes. In my opinion, this respect can be demonstrated by sitting quietly while they say a blessing, and not judging them afterward. I don’t think it is necessary to bow your head, but would you bow your head if a blessing was being said at a sports stadium? If so, then you should do so at someone’s table.

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Comments

[conuly]

Both Miss Manners and the person who wrote to Miss Manners are delightful in their consideration for others.

As for Amy, there is no sign that LW2 was judging Sister or, more importantly, acting judgmental. And no, I wouldn't bow my head in a sports stadium. That is not a place that public prayer belongs. I'd be more likely to write a firm letter on the subject to the management.

Sister was very, very much in the wrong. The fact that Easter is a religious holiday has nothing to do with LW2's behavior.

[dissectionist]

Easter is a religious holiday for some folks and a secular holiday for others, regardless of its origin. If one is going over to a relative’s house who has previously celebrated it as a secular holiday, unless told otherwise in advance, it’s not unreasonable to expect that it would be a secular gathering again.

There was nothing to indicate that LW didn’t sit quietly, and nothing to indicate that LW judged their sister afterward. The issue was about LW’s sister insisting on religious observance from secular visitors.

[redbird]

It's also LW's sister's snarky phrasing. She could have said something like "next time, please bow your head while my husband says grace."

I don't know whether LW's sister was looking for an apology, or expected LW and his wife to promise to bow their heads next time without explicitly being asked, or both. I might be tempted to snark back with something like "and you could at least have asked beforehand."

[conuly]

She still would've been in the wrong. LW didn't eat or chatter or browse social media while grace was being said.

[full_metal_ox]

Furthermore, nothing in LW#2’s account suggests that they’d had any forewarning that their sister and brother-in-law had Gotten Religion (admittedly a fairly common development as people reach old age)—-which, among American cultural Christians, often entails the perceived duty to shove it at all comers.)

(LW1? You’re cool; you consider the preferences and comfort of your guests and are willing to live and let live. So are you, Miss Manners.)

[melannen]

Yeah, there's something to be said from a Miss Manners POV that if you accept an invite to a private function where you know there will be prayers, then bowing your head on request (or if you know it's expected) is showing basic respect for your host's faith. However that's not what happened here, what happened here is he went to his sister's for holiday dinner and got all of this shoved in his face with no warning, and then she sniped at him for not doing exactly what she expected without being asked. So he's definitely not the one in the wrong here.

[dissectionist]

Right? A heads-up in advance - “we’ve become Christians, we’d appreciate it if you joined in doing grace with us” - would have been completely reasonable.

[kiezh]

Inviting people for dinner, knowing that they're not prayer-at-dinner people, and then sniping at them after dinner for simply sitting through the prayer and not participating in some way - THERE'S an etiquette faux pas. LW2's sister needs a refresher on hospitality. And so does Amy, with that terrible answer.

[cimorene]

Bingo

[ethelmay]

I will just note that if sister had been bowing her head properly during grace herself, she wouldn't have known whether anyone else was doing so or not.

[castiron]

***DING DING DING DING DING DING***

[full_metal_ox]

Let us turn now to Matthew 7:3.

[minoanmiss]

Ooh yes.

[conuly]

"What are you talking about, Sis? Of course I bowed my head and closed my eyes - didn't you?"

[torachan]

Ew, it's bad enough that the national anthem has become a fixture at sports games since 9/11 but I sure hope that prayer hasn't become common as well.

[ironymaiden]

"since 9/11”?

i don't love the practice myself, but it's been common in the US since 1918

[cereta]

Yeah, I was going to say. What I hated was the replacement of the 7th-Inning Stretch from "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" to "God Bless America," which was a 9/11 thing, but I think that one was temporary.

[torachan]

Not to the degree it is now. Post 9/11 patriotism ramped it up to ridiculous degrees.

[full_metal_ox]

Also the point where Top 40 country music jumped the shark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CORANvT8l9A

[cereta]

The military has a lot to do with that. They see the pregame show of mandatory patriotism as a recruiting opportunity. I think (think) that NFL players didn't used to be on the field for the anthem, but the military requested it, which makes the controversy over kneeling...interesting.

[falkner]

It sounds like LW2 didn't get asked to bow their head in advance and refused, but just chastised afterwards for not doing it?

[adrian_turtle]

I found this particularly offensive. If you want choreography, you need to tell people. "Let's join hands and bow our heads while Dave says grace." Or "Before we toast Mary's new promotion, I'd like to say a few words." Or "If you want to wash, it's our custom to use the kitchen. We'll sing and do motzi when everyone is back."