Care & Feeding: My Docile Kid Chose Violence

[minoanmiss]

Actual title: My Otherwise Docile Kid Chose a Really Odd Way to Stand Up for His Classmate

Dear Care and Feeding,

I have a 12-year-old son, “Todd,” who is a serious, generally well-behaved kid. So I was flabbergasted to learn that he had been issued an in-school suspension for punching another boy in his class (I’ll call him Sean). When Todd got home that day, I was honestly more worried than angry since this seemed so unlike him—and then what he told me left me confused. Todd has a classmate with a disability. “Anna” uses a wheelchair and has shown no sign of developing normal musculature—her arms and legs are like pencils. Apparently, Sean had been making fun of Anna. So very calmly, very seriously—very much the way Todd does things—he got up from his desk, punched Sean in the mouth, told him to shut up, and then sat back down at his own desk.

When I asked him why he’d resorted to violence, he shrugged and gave me a grave look and said that hate speech was a form of violence, so a violent response seemed necessary. He’s not apologetic at all. He’s not particularly upset about his punishment and seems determined to take it in good grace. I’m not sure what to do. I applaud his instinct for sticking up for people who can’t do it for themselves, but I don’t want him punching people for saying things, even if they are bigoted, hateful, stupid things.

—How to Proceed
I applaud his instinct for sticking up for people too (though I don’t know why you—or he—assumes that Anna can’t stick up for herself, as one does not require “normal” musculature to do so, and you haven’t mentioned that her disability includes mutism) but you’re right: he has no business punching anyone. I’m surprised that a child you describe as calm and serious, and who seems to have given thought to the notion of hate speech as violence (I agree!) has no storehouse of calm, serious words at his disposal to smite his enemies and defend the victims of spoken violence. I am also surprised that his instinct was not to speak to Anna herself, directly, both assuring her that Sean is a jerk who isn’t worth her attention and that he is her friend. (One of the best ways to help someone who is being bullied is to be genuinely kind to them yourself.)

Physical violence is never an appropriate response except in the most extreme situations of self-defense. I strongly suggest you begin teaching your son this now, before it is too late—as well as teaching him how to use his words to disarm or even vanquish a bigot or bully. Standing up for what’s right is always the right thing to do. But there are better ways to do it than punching someone in the mouth.

I’m concerned that Todd doesn’t seem to know (or care, now that he’s been told by his school) that punching is wrong, even when it’s “for a good cause.” Make sure he does. That’s part of your job, OK?

—Michelle

Comments

*uses icon with weapons*

[minoanmiss]

0) What a privileged fucking answer. "Can't Anna stick up for herself?" Maybe Anna appreciates having an ally instead of having to argue all by herself against a strong able-bodied boy while wondering if everyone's silence means they agree with him?

" I am also surprised that his instinct was not to speak to Anna herself, directly, both assuring her that Sean is a jerk who isn’t worth her attention and that he is her friend. " We don't know he didn't also do that, and also he may not yet know to, because...

0.5) That said Todd is not quite doing allyship correctly, in part because...

1) TODD IS TWELVE YEARS OLD. I think it's 'developmentally appropriate', as it were, for him to have heard that hate speech is violence (it is) and to conclude that speech and violence are interchangeable (they are not). I agree that LW needs to teach him the difference but I don't agree with Michelle's punitive attitude, which risks having Todd think he's being punished for standing up against bigotry instead of the way he did so.

2) I think a lot of people think that words and actions are completely different and very far apart but I really don't think that's true. "Speech is violence" is a probably-too-short way of expressing some profound truths. Both LW and (especially) Michelle seem more concerned that Todd punched Sean one time than that Sean has been regularly ridiculing a classmate for her disability. Legally they're right but ethically I think Sean has likely doled out more damage than he took. But that probably wouldn't help LW to say.

3) "I’m concerned that Todd doesn’t seem to know (or care, now that he’s been told by his school) that punching is wrong, even when it’s “for a good cause.” What the fuck ever. What WOULD help LW is reassurance that one single punch doesn't make Todd some kind of violent monster in need of muzzling. I'm concerned that Sean seems to be being allowed by his teacher, parents, etc, to unleash ongoing cruelty on a disabled classmate. I think that says a lot more about Sean's essential character than Todd's single punch does about his.

4) *rolls eyes elaborately*

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[cimorene]

All of this, 💯.

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[lethe1]

Yes, all of this from me too.

My first reaction was to applaud Todd.

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[dine]

that was my first reaction too!

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[ashbet]

10000%

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[azurelunatic]

I wonder how physical the "ridiculing" has become. I would want to know whether Sean has been interfering with Anna's wheelchair, shoving her, or anything else that might not register as "violence" to a non-wheelchair user.

Re: *uses icon with weapons*

[dabbleswithpoisons]

Yup, very good question.

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[ashbet]

Agreed, as a part-time wheelchair user — the ableds generally are blissfully unaware of the degree of violation (and danger!) messing with a mobility device can be, even if Sean “never laid a hand on” her body.

[shanaqui]

The whole "Can't Anna stick up for herself" bit blows. I could stick up for myself and frequently did -- it made the bullying worse. What I needed were allies, which I never had.

Also... when I found some kids hitting my sister while holding a bin over her head so she would not recognise them, I still feel that my approach of grabbing the ringleader and throwing him across the room was valid. I needed him off her, I had three other kids to handle plus spectators, and I thought my prefect badge was going to do jack shit. So, I threw him. (No idea how I did that, as he was a 15-year-old and being 17 did not give me that much extra oomph generally speaking; adrenaline is a hell of a thing.)

It doesn't sound like that was the case for Todd here, but who knows? I doubt the situation was described to the LW in the terms given here, so I think her imagination has embroidered things.

[laurajv]

right? i mean....i'm thinking of the kid i went to school with who was violent to anyone around him when he thought he could get away with it.

so one day i followed him partway home from the bus, grabbed him from behind, spun him around, kneed him in the balls so hard he fell over and rolled around pathetically, and told him he'd better not touch anyone where i could see him ever again.

we were both 9 years old at the time. as far as i know, he never told anyone about it. he also never touched anyone on our bus, in our class, or in our lunch period ever again. if he ever started nonsense, i would cross my arms and twitch my knee, and he'd back down.

was i wrong to do what i did? i mean, maybe. it certainly wasn't a mature way to solve the problem. but by that point he'd been being violent to other children for years and the adults sure weren't stopping him. so while it might not have been a GOOD solution or a morally correct solution, i don't feel like i am a bad person for coming up with it and then implementing it, even though it was violent.

sometimes children solve their own problems and I feel like Todd decided to solve this one.

[harpers_child]

As a bullied child who took maybe too much comfort from reading Ender's Game repeatedly, I think Todd did the right thing. I bet Sean has a history of bullying and specifically bullying Anna. I bet you Sean thinks twice before saying shit to or about Anna now. I'm sure Sean is rethinking how he talks to or about a whole bunch of classmates now. I want to buy Todd a stack of comics and an ice cream.

(This is me acknowledging that my damage is not everyone's damage and my response is probably not the correct one. I also think this was a one off behavior and LW is over-reacting.)

[minoanmiss]

We may not be right but we are wrong in perfect agreement.

(Loved Ender's Game, why did OSC have to be such an asshole.)

[melannen]

Hey Michelle, unchecked bullying and ridicule, and *definitely* hate speech, doesn't only harm the primary target. It also harms everyone else who has to listen. LW's son may have been sticking up for Anna, but he was also sticking up for the whole classroom and everyone in the classroom. Possibly he was even sticking up for a particular friend with an invisible disability that Sean didn't even know was also being hit. Possibly he was sticking up for himself.

The question you should be asking is why your son thought punching was a suitable response. Had adults been allowing this to go unchecked? Did he have evidence that other approaches wouldn't work? Had Sean been bullying other people as well? Was punching a useful response, did it work to prevent the hate speech from continuing? Have that discussion with him, and be ready to engage honestly with his answers.

If he picked up that punching is the correct first response to hate speech and he punched the kid right away with no other provocation and no opportunity for any other intervention to happen, maybe he needs some lessons in history and strategies of nonviolent resistance. But I strongly suspect he'd been watching the teachers let Sean get away with this for awhile, in which case he had evidence that nonviolent resistance was unlikely to be effective. At some point you do have to just punch the asshole who's bullying your friend, and the correct response is to make sure he knows how to punch safely for next time.

(Also he's 12. It's possible he just really wanted to punch someone just once and thought he'd finally found his chance. If that turns out to be the case, sign him up for kickboxing or something.)

[sporky_rat]

As someone who was bullied for years and finally had enough and did punch the fucker in the stomach (I couldn't reach the nose), sometimes you just need to punch the bully.

LW, take a deep breath and talk to your kid.

[conuly]

Violence is usually not a good answer, but sometimes people just are begging to get punched. Not often, but I'm not too worried about Todd here.

[p_cocincinus]

I suspect that this was the final straw in an entire heap of incidents between the bully and Anna, and the bully and Todd, outside the notice of adults - in hallways, on playgrounds, in cafeterias. I also wouldn't be surprised if Todd told the bully beforehand if he said another word to Anna, he'd punch him in the face, and the bully decided to be an asshole in the classroom ON PURPOSE, thinking that Todd wouldn't dare to hit him in front of a teacher.

Take Todd out for pizza and teach him that the only people you should punch are Nazis.

[lilysea]

*see icon*

As far as I can tell, the main reason not to punch Sean is that Todd could have been suspended, which might have left Anna totally unprotected/undefended at school.

As a wheelchair user, there are A LOT of ways people can be annoying on purpose that Sean might have been doing

- blocking your path on purpose and either refusing to move, or arguing, sighing dramatically, rolling your eyes, saying "don't be silly, you've got TONNES OF ROOM"

- deliberately bumping the back of your wheelchair, which can be painful

- deliberately putting backpacks, chairs, tables blocking your path

- hanging bags or coats on the back of your wheelchair as tho you are a coatrack

- pushing your wheelchair without asking permission

- running up behind a powerwheelchair and trying to jump on the back for a joyride (I had two kids [I would guess between ages 5 to 10] I didn't know at a shopping centre run up to me trying to do this - their mother was quite a way behind them. It was very dangerous, and very annoying, and their mother didn't take it anywhere near as seriously as she should have.)

[ashbet]

^^^All of this!!!

[vindoletta]

I disagree with the saying "Violence is never the answer." It's the only answer left if all other nonviolent ways to solve the problem have failed and the other part has more power than you, like, say, a bully.

Maybe Todd could have stood up for Anna in a different, nonviolent way. But his reaction still shows Sean that not all of the other kids agree with him or won't do anything to stop him. That's huge. Bullies rely on the complicit inaction of others to get away with their harassment.

If I were LW I'd be worried about possible retaliation against Anna or Todd, and make sure Todd knows about nonviolent ways to stand up for others to try first. But punishing him for standing up for the weak, just because it's inconvenient or shocking to the parents, it's not the lesson I'd like him to learn.