ysobel: (Default)
masquerading as a man with a reason ([personal profile] ysobel) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2023-03-28 04:25 pm

Miss Manners or That Bad Advice?

Dear Miss Manners: I have been friends with a woman for almost 15 years. We are part of a group that often gets together for game nights, and we also celebrate important days in our lives.

On her last birthday, I offered to take her out to dinner, something we have done for both of our birthdays every year. She responded by saying she wants to take a break from seeing all the people in the gaming group until further notice. Our other friends say they still see her, but she refuses to see me or respond to my texts or emails. I am confused and bewildered about why she has ended our friendship. Our other friends aren’t sure why she made this decision.

I would apologize, but don’t know what I did to create this chasm between us. After no response to two emails and a letter where I expressed a desire to talk through what is going on, I don’t know what else to do. Should I just accept the end of our friendship and move on? Even if she eventually reaches out, I am hurt and confused and not sure how to respond.


It is too soon to give up, if only because you admit the possibility that you may have done something that requires an apology. The question is, what?

Contrary to what you have been told, your other friends — at least some of them — do know what happened. They just (understandably) do not want to be put in the middle. Ask them again, one by one, until one confesses, reports your question back to your longtime friend or persuades you they truly don’t know. The most likely outcome is that you will learn something that will inform you of what to do next.
pauraque: bird flying (Default)

[personal profile] pauraque 2023-03-28 11:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I mean, if you want to go from losing one of your friends to losing all of them, then sure.
minoanmiss: A spiral detail from a Minoan fresco (Minoan Spiral)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2023-03-29 12:01 am (UTC)(link)
.... did That Bad Advice start hacking into other advisors' columns now? ahahhaha what is this.
kiezh: Text: Apparently it was going to be one of those days when people made no sense whatsoever. (mina de malfois says people make no sens)

[personal profile] kiezh 2023-03-29 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
It really sucks when someone you thought you were on good terms with suddenly freezes you out and you don't know why. I've experienced that (more than once, argh!) and I know how it sends you into a tailspin of "but whyyyyy, did I do something, how can I fix it."

That said. LW, you need to stop. Stop obsessing, stop sending her emails and letters badgering her to explain herself, stop interrogating your mutual friends. You will probably never know why, if she didn't already say and you went back over your interactions and found no clues. (And it's possible that LW is conveniently ignoring an Incident or two that would make it completely explicable, but I'm taking them at their word right now.)

Sometimes people stop wanting to be your friend. They have that right. It's painful, but endlessly picking at it is useless, can sabotage your other friendships, and will just keep hurting. Close the door on it. She's not your friend anymore. (Seriously, stop sending her any kind of communication. She knows where to find you if she feels like having a conversation about it. Continuing to send messages after she's cut contact is harassment.)


minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Lady in Blue)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2023-03-29 01:51 am (UTC)(link)
You deserve whatever MM got paid to answer this.
kiezh: Tree and birds reflected in water. (Default)

[personal profile] kiezh 2023-03-29 04:16 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! :D

You were right that the original answer sounded like the Bad Advisor. "Go ahead and keep harassing people who don't want to talk about this for answers they may not have! You will totally be able to solve the mysteries of interpersonal disconnects by hounding your friends mercilessly for any shred of gossip you can unearth." Wow.
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2023-03-29 05:34 am (UTC)(link)
Well, that's good advice, unlike whatever's up there.
p_cocincinus: (Default)

[personal profile] p_cocincinus 2023-03-29 03:53 am (UTC)(link)
I am just envisioning Captain Awkward's horrified expression as she reads MM's response.
feast_of_regrets: "Here comes frustration" caption in a blue slightly clouded sky. A red helium balloon floats away at the top of the picture. (Here comes frustration)

[personal profile] feast_of_regrets 2023-03-30 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
And now I am too! Best thing to do with this advice, really.
jadelennox: Judith Martin/Miss Manners looking ladylike: it's not about forks  (judith martin:forks)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2023-04-01 05:27 pm (UTC)(link)

I am just imagining Judith Martin's horrified expression as she reads her kids' response using her MM brand name.

Here is an actual, old school, Judith Martin-style MM-style response to this.

Gentle Reader,

It can be a shock to the senses when a friend abruptly ends a relationship with no warning, but that is her right. If you are positive, truly, that you don't know what happened, then you might let your closest friends in the group know that if you have some unpleasant behaviors you need to change or apologise for (outside of your relationship with the former friend), you would like to hear about them. (Do not make this request if you don't sincerely want to hear the answer, and are open to change, however!) Otherwise, continue with your game nights with your remaining close friends, and consider expanding your social circle as well. Do not harass your former acquaintance, and do not ask your other friends to come between you.

shanaqui: Stylised art of Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel from above ((Carol) Wispy)

[personal profile] shanaqui 2023-03-29 09:38 am (UTC)(link)

Jesus, no!

LW, you can, at most, send one final email. "I don't understand what happened, and whether there was something I did that has caused this situation. I'm writing this final time because I'd still like the chance to talk it over and apologise, if so... or if it wasn't my fault, I'd appreciate closure so I don't keep on wondering about it. In the meantime, I understand that you've drawn a boundary between us and I'll respect that going forward. I hope to see you again in the future. Please take care, and know that my door is open."

(That said, you've sent two emails and a letter already so probably it's time to just respect the boundary. On the couple of occasions that a friendship has broken down like this, I sent that kind of email very early on, as my first response as soon as it was clear that the friend was freezing me out, and backed the fuck off immediately thereafter.)

Then don't keep asking your friends about it, don't email her again, leave it the heck alone. Maybe you won't ever know. You need to find your own comfort with that, whether that involves venting at a non-mutual friend, a family member, or even a therapist if it's getting under your skin that much.

If it helps, though, in my experience it has sometimes? often? not been strictly about me in such a case. The rest of the time it is, of course, but if you search your memory and find nothing you can tax yourself with, then it's worth remembering that sometimes bad things happen to people and they don't want to share. Sometimes people need a fresh start. Sometimes someone we're close to does something terrible, and we have no idea that it's happened, but we're forever tainted by association for that former friend. Sometimes people just have a bolt of clarity that, for whatever reason, the friendship brings out the worst in them. There are all kinds of reasons that aren't about you.

ETA: One friend I'm thinking about lost someone they were close to very suddenly, very tragically, to suicide. We were very close for a couple of years as I supported them through that and became closer to them through being available as a shoulder to cry on during that time, and then suddenly they vanished from my life entirely without a word. I wasn't the only friend who suddenly got removed from their Facebook etc, so I've always wondered if they needed a fresh start, away from people who knew about that tragedy. Alternatively, maybe my support wavered as my life kept on happening to me, and they got angry about that. Maybe they disowned me because I loved Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (the book), for all I know! I've no idea, in truth, but it's easier to think that maybe they needed to start over than to keep on trying to guess. I still think about them regularly; it's not easy to put it aside when you're left wondering.

Even so, I quickly stopped trying to contact them or trying to find out how they were. Sometimes, you gotta just let go.

Edited 2023-03-29 09:43 (UTC)
haggis: (Default)

[personal profile] haggis 2023-03-29 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
In a completely different context, I found that coming up with 10 possible reasons why someone had not yet responded to a message I'd sent was useful. It stopped my brain deciding that "she hates you and never wants to talk to you again" was the only explanation. (The person always got back to me, just not on the timescale my anxious brain demanded.)
goljerp: Photo of the moon Callisto (Default)

[personal profile] goljerp 2023-03-29 08:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe they disowned me because I loved Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell

Off topic: Ugh, while I generally like SFF, I really didn't like that book. Soooo long, I didn't really like most of the characters who the text focused on, and the footnotes were just annoying. I kept on reading them, hoping that they'd be interesting, or funny, or... worth it. I don't remember them being any of the above. I think I finally skimmed the last 300 pages or something just so I could see if there was an ending. But I probably wouldn't disown someone for lliking that book; I probably just wouldn't trust their suggestions for other books. :-)
minoanmiss: Bull-Leaper; detail of the Toreador Fresco (Bull-Leaper)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2023-03-31 04:19 pm (UTC)(link)
*fistbump of agreement*
xenacryst: Opus from Bloom County saying "NO NO..." (Bloom County: Opus NO NO)

[personal profile] xenacryst 2023-03-29 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Call up each of your friends and invite them over for tea and conversation. Put them on a stool in an unfurnished room with a single lamp shining in their eyes as you don your trench coat and hat. Watch them squirm as they try to answer your persistent, intense, nonsensical questions. Drink the tea yourself as you raise a little finger. Twirl the ends of your mustache. Cackle maniacally.