Ask a Manager: a coworker’s child keeps saying insulting and bigoted things to me

[minoanmiss]

Title as a content advisory.



t’s the Thursday “ask the readers” question

I work in a nonprofit child care setting and the environment can be toxic at times. These people have all known each other for decades and have habits of lying for one another in professional settings to make the organization sound better than it actually is.

That being said, I am an openly gay man and recieve much support from my coworkers. I truly love working here. I have pride flags in my office, i wear pride themed clothes often, I paint my nails, and have sparkly gems decorating my desk in pinks and whites.


So here’s the issue: I have one coworker, Lynn, who makes me feel uncomfortable who is also good friends with most of the executive staff. I recently had to ask Lynn not to play Christian worship music in the office because it was making me feel uncomfortable and she understood. Now she’s brought her seven-year-niece in a few times and while she’s super cute and its not unusual for us to have kids in the office, this child is rude and mean to me but says she’s just joking.

This seven-year-old has told me I’m ugly, I shouldn’t be painting my nails, I shouldn’t like “girly” things, I’m too hairy, I’m a weirdo, and that she wants to cut up my pride flags and wreck my desk gems when I’m not looking.

Now, she’s a child and I understand she probably doesn’t fully understand the impact of what she’s saying, but I feel that children say what they hear at home and are more honest than the adults around them. It feels like Lynn and her family have these feelings and the child is just repeating it.

I want to say something to Lynn about it, but I worry that I’m going to be making bigger issues for myself here because she is super close with the organization’s executive director and is one of the most gossip-oriented people I’ve ever worked with. I was warned on my first day that she was a gossip and I have firsthand witnessed her repeat private conversations to entire rooms of coworkers.

My question is this: how would you address a situation where a coworker’s child, who doesn’t actually attend our child-care program, is saying offensive and mean things to you that genuinely hurt your feelings, even though as a child she probably doesn’t understand what she’s saying?

Comments

[minoanmiss]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I apologize for spamming the community this morning but oh my stars and garters I had to bring this here. The best response so far is "I think this above the readers’ paygrade." and the others look pretty lackluster to me, but I don't have any advice myself, especially with the fact that Lynn is BFFs with the Executive Director.

Well, someone did point out in comments what Lynn is quite deliberately doing. Playing loud Christian music in the office was her first salvo. Now she's brought in a weaponized child. Argh. Argharghargharghleargh.

[ermingarden]

You and I read this differently, but I don't think there's enough here to be sure Lynn has being doing any of this deliberately, or even knows what the kid is saying to LW – especially because LW says she "understood" when he asked her to stop playing the Christian music.

[minoanmiss]

The thing is, when I was a child in an Evangelical church, I listened to the adults talking, saying that being told to turn off their Christian music was a sign that the Devil owns this world, etc, and advising each other to combat "godlessness" (LGBT, feminism, other religions, etc) with amping up the Christianity at work including the music. I saw people plan to do this deliberately as part of claiming they were being persecuted for being openly Christian at work. That's why I think Lynn isn't so innocent.

I was also encouraged, as a child, to "tell people God's truth", including statements not far from what Emily's spouting. I didn't say things like that to random adults because of my personality, more or less, but I wasn't the only child encouraged to do that.

Furthermore, right now when queer people are being called "groomers" and the libel about queer=pedophilic is being resurrected in all its gory zombie glory, I am kind of suspicious about Lynn sending a kid spouting these provocative statements to LW, because there are people who would paint any interaction he has with her as Dangerous. I worry this is going to be a trap. I'd worry even more if Emily were Earl.

I mean, I could be wrong, but these are some of the experiences informing my opinion.

[ermingarden]

I definitely see where you're coming from! But the fact that LW says Lynn "understood" when he asked her to stop playing Christian music, and she stopped without pushing back on it, suggests that – based only on what LW reports – Lynn may be clueless but not actively hostile, and may treat the request to control the kid the same way she treated the request to turn off the music, especially since it sounds like Lynn may not be aware of the kid's behavior. If Lynn had that sort of persecution complex about it, I'd imagine she would have pushed back about the music.

To clarify, I'm not saying Lynn for sure isn't hostile – just that the facts LW gives us aren't enough to lead me to that conclusion. Plenty of non-evangelicals, even including some gay people (e.g., me!), listen to Christian artists like Matt Maher or Lauren Daigle, and although I have the common sense not to play religious music at work, common sense is...well, not all that common!

[torachan]

You sure are giving her a lot of benefit of the doubt.

And I think Christian pop music is pretty different from worship music, which is what she was playing.

[raine]

Christian pop tends to be subtler than worship music, but not by much, if you know what to look for.
- someone who got pulled into it

[torachan]

Definitely. But playing worship music feels much more deliberate and aggressive.

[raine]

Oh, yeah, definitely!

[sathari]

I'm Team You and Team LW on this one. This is just... definitely weaponized small child. I say this as someone who's been on a different side of the "small children with powerful adult protectors aggressively policing my adult self's unwillingness to behave as the small children think someone of what they believe to be my gender 'should'".

[raine]

Yeah, "weaponized child" was my first thought when I read that letter. Even if the girl doesn't know she's being used.

[ermingarden]

Honestly, based on what's here, I think LW's first step has to be talking to Lynn directly. I also think LW may have better luck with that than he thinks!

Lynn complied with the request not to play Christian music without resistance, and I really don't think anything here suggests that Lynn had been playing the music deliberately to bother LW – she probably wasn't thinking about it. It's also true that there are plenty of LGBT Christians, and some of us even listen to worship music, so I don't think Lynn could have been expected to know she should avoid playing it specifically because of LW's sexuality. (Though playing it in the office of a non-religious org definitely isn't appropriate whether you have LGBT coworkers or not!)

LW doesn't say the niece lives with Lynn, so LW's assumption (probably correct) that the kid learned to say these things at home isn't evidence of Lynn's personal beliefs. LW says the kid says she's just joking, but nothing about Lynn's reaction – it sounds like Lynn likely doesn't even know what the kid is saying. Lynn's willing acquiescence to LW's previous request for her to stop playing Christian music because it made him uncomfortable as a gay man suggests to me that she'd probably tell the kid to knock it off – the kid's behavior is way more egregious and directly targets LW.

The interaction re: the worship music is the most direct evidence LW has to go on to predict Lynn's reaction if he were to tell her about the kid's behavior, and in that interaction he says Lynn "understood" when he asked her not to play Christian music in the office and didn't argue about it. That really suggests to me that she'd likely do something about the kid's behavior if LW brought it to her attention and asked her to deal with it.

[conuly]

My goodness, that poor child. I hope somebody teaches her better before she's grown.

With that said, any seven year old I met who said rude things to me and then tried the "I'm joking" line would be pretty firmly corrected. I don't believe in that "Don't correct other people's kids" line. If your kids are not within your earshot and reach, then you've effectively said that other adults can step in. And this one is pretty easy: "I think you know that's not a nice thing to say, "joking" or not. I don't want to have to tell your aunt about your behavior, but I will if you continue."

And then if I did have to continue with Lynn I'd emphasize that the child is being disrespectful and, to the manager or whatever, that the child is being disruptive.

[jadelennox]

I would be so wary of the political implications here, personally, that I would handle this incredibly quote-unquote professionally (by which I mean that style of workplace interaction that we pretend is depoliticized.

eg. "Hi, Lynn, could you ask your niece not to interact me in the office anymore? She's developed a habit of attempting to provoke me, and while she's seven years old and obviously her provocations don't bother me, it's become disruptive for my efforts to get my work done. I love that we are allowed to bring children into the office when necessary, but it can't be a distraction from our actual jobs, as I'm sure you agree."

Once you are arguing with a kid who is out to troll you as if you are equals, you've lost. You can talk to the seven-year-old if they are interested in actual conversation, but this kid is trolling. Because the niece isn't in their childcare program, and LW has no educational or guardian relationship with them, this isn't a conversation they can have. The most they could do is have the conversation with the niece directly, instead of with Lynn: "hi, it's good that you have this place to spend time with your aunt on snow days, but I have a job to do and I have to get it done, so I'd appreciate if you stopped distracting me from my job."

In theory that might work and it is certainly more respectful to the child, but since this kid really does appear to be both weaponized and enjoying the bullying, I would suspect that it would be more likely to switch to loudly talking about LW in earshot.

(yes, this is bullying, despite the power differential. Or it's an attempt to bully, anyway. And if Lynn's relationship with the executive team is such that the niece is allowed to keep doing it, then it is actively bullying.)

[ethelmay]

The rudeness by itself would be a problem. I would be tempted to say something like, "You're old enough to understand that you're being rude and not funny. That isn't kind. I don't like being spoken to that way, and I want you to stop. I know you can be kind and friendly when you try. Right now I need to get back to work."

[cimorene]

+1 It can be hard, especially when taken by surprise, but it's better not to let behavior like this slide - better for the kid too probably, tbh. I don't think that LW should get angry, but responding calmly but with no bullshit but shutting it down (rather than inviting further interaction) is probably a must in the moment, if they're interacting with this weaponized child further in future.

Though jadelennox 's suggestion, or something like it, to attempt to remove the attempted child bully, should also be set in motion, I think. I don't think we have enough evidence to know for certain that Lynn is acting with malice and intent, but I do know that minoanmiss 's testimony about Evangelical brainwashing is congruent with everything else I've known about Evangelicals from observation and the writings of other exvangelicals. That being the case, the balance of evidence makes 'malice aforethought' more likely, but avoiding addressing it directly is probably still the way to go as long as her actions leave plausible deniability. She could potentially also go above Lynn, but probably better not to start with that as long as superficial cordiality is the current state of things between them.

[hashiveinu]

+2 It's treating the kid like a person who can make her own moral choices, which is rare enough that it might get through to her.

[shirou]

Wow, this is fantastic advice.

[castiron]

I would be sorely tempted to say to the child, "That's not how Jesus says we should treat people." and then see how Lynn reacts to that. But on balance, I think focusing on the child as distraction from work is the best response.

[jerusha]

If the LW wanted to approach Lynn and not bring up anything related to politics, sexuality, etc., they could focus on the mean comments. "You're ugly," and "you're too hairy" are very rude things to say that have nothing to do with gender or anything else. I would be aghast and mortified if someone told me that my niece had told them that they were ugly.

[azurelunatic]

"Hi Lynn. Your niece has said some disturbing things to me that I thought you should be aware of." And then frame the rude and mean things as kids trying to get a rise out of grownups, and who need to understand that they can't say these things to people, and if she's saying this here to a stranger she's probably saying it elsewhere, and this could get her in trouble in school for bullying. And then the disturbing things: declaring her wish to deface and destroy other people's private property.

Based on this kid's rudeness, you are justified in not wanting her to talk to you at work, it's a distraction from the actual job. Based on the wish to destroy property, this kid shouldn't be in the office, period.