ermingarden: medieval image of a bird with a tonsured human head and monastic hood (Default)
Ermingarden ([personal profile] ermingarden) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2021-12-17 01:57 pm
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Dear Prudence: My Brother-in-Law Is Secretly Sleeping With a Married Couple for Cash

Dear Prudence,

My brother-in-law disclosed to me that he had multiple sexual encounters with a married couple in exchange for money. He and my sister are struggling financially, and when he first mentioned that he was propositioned, I urged him to decline the offer because no good would come of it. That was about a year ago; then recently he said he gave in (at least twice, I guess) because they needed the cash. However, he has not told my sister. I am upset that he thought it OK to engage in an affair like this and upset that he disclosed this to me and expects me to keep it from my sister. They have two young children, and I know if I said anything to my sister, their family would implode. Keeping it from her also feels bad because if she were ever to find out that I knew, it would destroy my relationship with her.

—No Good Options


Dear No Good Options,

Why would he tell you this? Maybe on some level he wants you to tell your sister. Perhaps she can tell him to stop? Or she can know how hard he’s working to support the family? I really have no idea. But you don’t owe him anything, and you don’t have to keep this secret. Tell your sister, and she can decide whether or not her family implodes over it. This is a much better scenario than risking your relationship with her by hiding what you know.
cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (Default)

[personal profile] cimorene 2021-12-17 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
But if that was all then WHY would he tell LW? He really does want to have an affair but he also really does want to get caught...?
adrian_turtle: (Default)

[personal profile] adrian_turtle 2021-12-18 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Thinking of it financially changes the possible meaning of telling his sister-in-law. It might be a terrible idea for the brother-in-law to be secretly doing dangerous, stigmatized, illegal work because he needs money so badly. But it's not an affair. (Unless of course it is partly an affair? Is the couple paying for his beauty and acting skill and energy, or the knowledge that they're bribing him to commit adultery? People are complicated.)

I know there are more exciting plotbunnies being considered below, but the ones that leap to my mind are more old-fashioned.
"Please don't tell M I had to do this terrible thing just to pay rent and buy baby food for our poor children. If she knew, it would ruin Christmas." Then M's sister [or mom or best friend] either comes through with some kind of day-saving Christmas present.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

*

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2021-12-20 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)
OMG, best Christmas story ever. *dies*
adrian_turtle: (Default)

Re: *

[personal profile] adrian_turtle 2021-12-22 06:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I forgot to finish that comment. I wrote the "either" but not the "or."

Either M's sister comes through with something like "Merry Christmas, dear sister, here's a large check. Tell your husband to stop worrying so much about money, and remind the children their godmother loves them even though I can't visit again just now."

OR she tells M her husband is a scoundrel/liar/criminal, and she turns up Christmas morning to whisk her sister and niblings away.

Could the husband have been hoping for the first scenario? Given the timing? Maybe. The total fantasy scenario ("Here's a house, and health insurance, and a hypoallergenic pony!" is not going to happen.) But a few hundred dollars to fix the car can be life-changing for a lot of families.
cereta: Word Girl (Word Girl)

See? Word Girl applies!

[personal profile] cereta 2021-12-17 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, see, there's a word we're avoiding here that I think casts a different light on this situation:

Prostitution.

Now, I cannot say for certain that he doesn't want to have/enjoy sex with this couple independent of monetary concerns, but I have to ask: if this were a single mother who engaged in one act of prostitution to avoid having the power cut off, would we maybe have different vibes about this? Would we (and by we, I mean "LW, Prudie, and us" not be less inclined to call this an "affair" and more inclined to believe that she really had done it out of desperation? That perhaps (as Prudie asserts) she told LW as a way of ensuring that she would never have to do it again, if only because a friend/spouse/inlaw forbade it?

And maybe none of that would be true for her! Maybe having sex with Some Person is quite enjoyable, and the (still much-needed) money is just a side-benefit. So it follows that maybe none of that is true for BiL! But I'm really uncomfortable with this being constructed, up to and including LW using the word, as a "affair." I get that BiL specifically telling LW is...weird, although in this case, I think it would make a real difference if LW were a brother or a sister.

And I do agree that LW should tell their sister, because the sister has a right to know, but what and how they tell her worries me. There is obviously no neutral way to phrase it, but, "This married couple propositioned your husband to have sex with them for money, and he did so twice, including Time When You Were Really Desperate" is very different from "Your husband is having an affair with this married couple, who are giving him money."

conuly: (Default)

Re: See? Word Girl applies!

[personal profile] conuly 2021-12-17 10:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Agreed.
cereta: Syfy's Alice (Alice)

Re: See? Word Girl applies!

[personal profile] cereta 2021-12-18 12:09 am (UTC)(link)
I absolutely don't disagree that his doing so without telling his wife was wrong on pretty much all levels. I actually have very strong feelings about adultery (the lying part, not the sex part, and thus not to be confused with polyamory) absent coercion, and frequently curse the Courtly Love tradition for making it seem romantic.

I'm just really ooged out by how the LW and to a lesser extent Prudie are constructing this as a...recreational? sexual relationship whose only ethical issue is sex outside marriage, without mentioning even the possibility that this couple is exploiting the BiL's dire financial straits (which include supporting two young children) to persuade him to do something he didn't want to do. I mean, maybe he's enthusiastically participating, but if, as you say, he's being honest about things at all, including number of transactions and timing of at least one, it does vibe more like his reasons are financial, specifically pretty dire financial straits. Perhaps I am engaging in the very stereotyping I am decrying, but I would have expected him to have done it more than twice if it was because he wanted/enjoyed it. I know, I know: guilt, conflicted feelings about fidelity, sex, and sexuality, used the money as an excuse. I'm Catholic; I know the narrative. And maybe it's just some recently serious examination of my own views of prostitution (long story short: I'm a lot less convinced that it can be benign under the "right" circumstances), but, well, it bugs me.
cereta: Blaine from the Dark Tower (Blaine)

Re: See? Word Girl applies!

[personal profile] cereta 2021-12-18 04:05 am (UTC)(link)
I can see that for Prudie, who is, ahem, prudently answering the question that was asked and not really getting into the narrative the LW has constructed about the situation. I'm much less okay with the LW themself and the narrative they've constructed.
lemonsharks: (Default)

Re: See? Word Girl applies!

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2021-12-18 02:39 am (UTC)(link)

⬆️ All of this

minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2021-12-17 07:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I really need to resist the plotbunny.
cereta: Nightwing is pretty (Nightwing)

[personal profile] cereta 2021-12-17 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
This is where I get down off my high horse and admit that "non/dub-con in which submission is coerced with something other than physical force" is a serious kink for me, right? Although it's pretty much never for money. More for the "person will expose the secret identity of my superhero mentor/bestie who I am secretly pining after" kind of thing. Superhero mentor/bestie thinking relationship is consensual and throwing names/person out of the house only to learn how very wrong they were and then beating the shit out of the person who coerced their maybe-superhero protege/bestie who they secretly pine after into sex is optional.
minoanmiss: Minoan version of Egyptian scribal goddess Seshat (Seshat)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2021-12-17 10:59 pm (UTC)(link)
*takes notes rapidly*
cereta: Dick and Bruce from Hanging Work, as drawn by Ratcreature (Hanging Work)

[personal profile] cereta 2021-12-18 12:12 am (UTC)(link)
Given your history of writing excellent fiction that jumps up and down on my buttons with the force of a hydrolic press, I choose to encourage this. And really wish I still had my Neal Caffrey icon.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2021-12-18 04:38 am (UTC)(link)

makes delighted squeaky noises

I am about to write Neal engaging in a ritual gangbang. OTOH, he's really looking forward to it. Am contemplating how long to spend describing every crease in Peter's forehead.

oursin: Sid the syphilis spirochaete from Giant Microbes (fluffy spirochaete)

[personal profile] oursin 2021-12-17 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Sid and I have questions concerning protection and whether there might be legitimate health issues to raise with sister.
harpers_child: melaka fray reading from "Tales of the Slayers". (Default)

[personal profile] harpers_child 2021-12-17 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
If BiL wants to do sex work to cover the bills, that's a conversation BiL and Sister have to have. If sister is cool with BiL doing sex work, then no problem (other than LW having to know about it). If sister is not cool with BiL doing sex work, then BiL and Sister need to have more conversations.

LW should be left out of it either way.
firecat: damiel from wings of desire tasting blood on his fingers. text "i has a flavor!" (Default)

[personal profile] firecat 2021-12-19 06:40 am (UTC)(link)
There's quite the close relationship between BIL and LW, apparently, since he's been telling LW all about his prostitution adventures for a year?

If I were LW (but with my values), I would tell him "I don't have a problem with the prostitution, but my sister deserves to know. Tell her or I will, you have one week."

And then I'd grieve the loss of any good parts of my relationship with them, because whatever happens that relationship is gonna change, even though it's not my fault.
mommy: Wanda Maximoff; Scarlet Witch (Default)

[personal profile] mommy 2021-12-19 02:15 pm (UTC)(link)
That's roughly where I am. The sister needs to know about the sex work, but the sex work itself isn't the problem.
minoanmiss: Minoan maiden, singing (Singing Minoan Maiden)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2021-12-20 06:00 pm (UTC)(link)
This is very wise.