Dear Prudence: My boyfriend still loves his ex

[minoanmiss]

My boyfriend “Josh” (27) is bisexual, and I think he still carries a torch for his ex-boyfriend, “Felix.” My best friend “Kate” (also bi) has suggested my problem with this is biphobia, but I’m definitely not biphobic.

We have been dating for just over a year now, and are thinking about moving in together. He is pretty much the most perfect guy I’ve ever dated, and I am in love. I’ve never fallen quite so hard before, but I could have kids with Josh and spend the rest of my life with him, something we have talked about. But I’m worried he is still in love with his ex. For example, he has one picture of us hanging up on his wall. But he has five photos of him and Felix hanging around the house as well, his very much alive ex-boyfriend. I’ve said it is weird, but Josh argues I have pictures of my friends in my own place as well, such as Kate—which is true. And admittedly, Josh has photos of other friends up as well, though not as many.

In his opinion, he and Felix ended on mutual terms about a year ago, as Felix got a permanent job in his home country, Germany. Not a short-term move, but a forever move. Josh was torn, but decided he couldn’t leave his parents, siblings, and friends. So they broke up, but decided to remain friends, after eight years together.

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They chat on the phone at least once a week (in German, so I can’t even understand them), as friends. I chat with my girlfriends on the phone as well, but never for an hour or two hours like they do. I joke that I thought us girls were meant to be the ones who never get off the phone, , but he just shrugged it off and said they had a lot of catching up to do. Which I don’t think is true, as they spoke for like 50 minutes on the phone last week!

—Biphobic or Not?

Dear Biphobic or Not,

I don’t think you’re being biphobic, but I can’t be 100 percent sure. Who knows what’s going on in the back of your brain and shaping the way you feel. I also don’t know if Josh still has feelings for Felix. He very well might, or he might not.

What I do know is that it absolutely sucks to be in a relationship when you think your partner is in love with someone else. And I don’t believe you can just turn that feeling off or talk yourself out of it. On some level, it reflects that, despite the fact that you call him the most perfect guy you’ve ever dated, you and your boyfriend may not be the best match. Because if you were, one of the signs would be that you felt secure and confident about your connection. The most perfect guy you ever date—if you meet him at the right moment, when you’re ready for a relationship—won’t leave a single doubt in your mind that you’re his first choice. Sadly, I don’t think you’re there with Josh. You love him, so I understand that a breakup would be tough right now, but why don’t you hold off on moving forward and press pause on any plans to move in together? Don’t pick them up again unless and until you feel convinced that you’re the only one for him.

Comments

I have a few things to say about this one

[minoanmiss]

0) Dear Prudence should have sent this to How To Do It who would have given EXPONENTIALLY better advice.

1) What is this "clearly he isn't the One of your Dreams who will love Only You" monogamy-normative bullpucky? By which I mean:
1a) Some people can love more than one person romantically
1b) Some people can love more than one person romantically and still commit to build a life with one particular person
1c) Some people can stay close to an ex and still love them even if not romantically

More specifically:
2a) Josh and Felix broke up because of circumstances, not incompatability or cruelty. Whatever shape it takes they still care about each other.
2b) LW, do you trust Josh? (No or you wouldn't have written this, but I'll say more about that later). If you do, why do you have to be able to listen to his conversations?
2c) If not being able to understand his conversation excludes you in a way that is untenable for you, haev you asked him to use English?
2d) HAVE YOU TALKED TO JOSH ABOUT ANY OF THIS AT ALL OMG? Have you told him you want to spend your life with him? Have you discussed what that lifetime partnership might look like? Have you asked him about how he envisions his current relationship with Felix? CRIMINY.
2e) I think LW should talk to Felix except that I really don't think she's ready for that yet.
2f) ALSO, I think Kate has a point. LW may be thinking this because she subscribes to the biphobic belief that bi people cannot choose to be monogamous and must have "one of each" or that bi people are inherently untrustworthy. OTOH, jealousy is a big enough brainworm on its own and LW is definitely jealous.
2g) When people have an ongoing relationship they can talk a lot. This is life.
2h) Josh may or may not be devoting energy and intimacy to Felix that he should be devoting to LW. I cannot see through LW's jealousy and spurious "evidence" to be able to tell.

In conclusion, someone please submit this letter to How To Do It so LW can get some actual good advice not fluffy monogamy-normative bullshit that didn't even mention that LW and Josh need to TALK.

*sits down, takes breath*

Re: I have a few things to say about this one

[ashbet]

100% agreed.

I’m friends or on good terms with just about everyone I’ve ever dated (with a couple of notable exceptions.) Some are close friends who I talk to frequently. It’s ENTIRELY PLATONIC.

I wish this had gone to HTDI, too — the LW needs to talk to her partner, and if she can’t bring herself to trust him, they should end the relationship.

Re: I have a few things to say about this one

[xenacryst]

You deserve whatever Dear Prudence was paid for that non-answer. As I was reading it I was starting to compose a response, but lo, you had already done so, and with more completeness than I was going to be able to muster today.

[frenzy]

Assuming they are monogamous, I can kind of understand where LW is coming from. Long weekly phone calls with an ex is a lot of emotional commitment. I don't think its wrong to still love an ex. I absolutely love all of mine still in some capacity or another, but I make sure to not put too much emotional commitment to any of them to make sure that I don't grow any feelings that could turn into emotional cheating. But I'm monogamous, so that makes sense.

the weird "THE ONE!" narrative is such garbage, even for monogamous people. There isn't a magical person out there. But there may be a better person out there. Come on.

[cimorene]

I DO agree that most people because of monogamy think long weekly convos with an ex are weird, and I would feel that too, BUT on the other hand if you're talking a long weekly conversation with a platonic friend... I wouldn't really think that was weird? So it's definitely the whole notion of emotional fidelity, special status, privileged closeness etc that's getting in the way. And IDK, for some people it's really important to be the closest person to their partner and for the reverse to be true - for absolute trust, the best confidante, the favorite person, the best friend. It's kind of important to me. But I know for a fact it's not true for everybody out there in monogamous romantic relationships, either.

[minoanmiss]

*nod* This is why I made sure to say "Josh may or may not be devoting energy and intimacy to Felix that he should be devoting to LW." Because he really could be. ANd to go deeper, there is a discussion to be had about what Josh "should" devote to each relationship.

I'm just frustrated with LW because she really needs to use her words, and at least 10x more frustrated with the current Prudie who didn't even tell her to.

(Also I should admit: being bi, I'm annoyed on Josh's behalf, and I really dislike it when Person A asks Person B to give up a positive connection to Person C,which helps Person B live a good full life, to prove their love for Person A.)

The single most valuable thing I learned from being poly is that things generally work better when people spend at least some time communicating about their romantic or other life partnership, rather than assuming it will grow into a particular shape without any effort or teamwork from the people involved. I DEFINITELY don't think everyone should be poly but I do wish more people knew that one.

[julian]

Like.

I don't have a problem with someone who wants to be (and is) monogamous, which certainly *sounds* like what the LW is.

I do actually think that *some* outside-the-relationship friendships can be too intimate, in some cases; not in the sense that they're cheating at any level, but in the sense that they're too intimate for *the person you're in the monogamous relationship with*.

I would not want to be in a monogamous relationship with someone for whom Josh & Felix's level of intimacy was a problem, but it's not inherently wrong to have that level of jealousy/possessiveness. It would just suck for me. (And most people I know. And probably Josh.)

So: LW, you're jealous. Use your words and communicate that to Josh, and work out what level of intimacy you're OK with in non-relationship friendships. And if you're not OK with that level of friendship, think more about why not. (But also keep communicating.) And it may not *be* workable, in that case, but learn how to talk, first, before you leap to Pru's assumption level.

[minoanmiss]

Word. LW's jealousy might be a distinct symptom of something that needs to be changed, but the first step in dealing with it is to talk to Josh. And the advice LW was given both explicitly didn't mention this and implicitly discouraged her from it. Grr.

[kindkit]

The timeline here is interesting.

Josh and Felix broke up "about a year ago."

LW and Josh have been dating for "just over a year."

So . . . either LW and Josh started dating while Josh and Felix were still involved, or very shortly after they split up.

If it was shortly afterward, then I can sort of understand her worrying about being Josh's rebound relationship. (Although I don't agree with how she's handling it.) If during, then either Josh and Felix weren't monogamous (but LW now apparently wants a monogamous relationship?) or he was cheating on Felix with LW.

I wonder if LW is being deliberately vague about the timing.

[vindoletta]

I read the columnist advice as "how to tell LW's she's the problem without telling her she's the problem" - while also giving her a plausible after-breakup explanation for why the relationship didn't work that would preserve her ego. :/

[firecat]

What I do know is that it absolutely sucks to be in a relationship when you think your partner is in love with someone else.

Assuming you don't think being in love with multiple people is perfectly normal. And I really wish Prudence had acknowledged that this paradigm exists.

I hate the conflation of monogamy (which I think of as "agreeing to have a sexual/romantic relationship with only one other person) with "close friendships between people of an appropriate sex to each other are forbidden."

[bikergeek]

I hate the conflation of monogamy (which I think of as "agreeing to have a sexual/romantic relationship with only one other person) with "close friendships between people of an appropriate sex to each other are forbidden.

So what are bisexuals supposed to do? Not have friends? I mean, the whole thing of "To a bisexual, there are no friends, only prey", is supposed to be a JOKE.

[julian]

I tend to think of the latter as a Purity Culture fed distortion of the former. (So, a subculture of a subculture of Christianity, but one which has become pervasive in the media/culture, so much so that (some) people don't realize it.)