minoanmiss (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
minoanmiss) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
agonyaunt2021-04-22 10:47 am
minoanmiss) wrote in agonyaunt2021-04-22 10:47 am
Dear Prudence: How Dare our DIL Have Boundaries
Dear Prudence,
Our son married a woman who is a firm believer in boundaries. Just hers though. We were barely consulted for the wedding but expected to pull out the checkbook. They moved near her family, and we were only allowed to visit twice a year and forced to stay in a motel (she was “uncomfortable” having us in her home overnight). After their twins were born, no one in our family was allowed to visit for two months, but her family was there at the hospital. Trying to have an honest discussion is useless. Our daughter-in-law will stand up and tell us we need “to respect my family’s boundaries or you will not see us,” and leave. Our son apologizes but tells us his wife comes first. Then the silent treatment comes until they need something, usually expecting us to babysit at a moment’s notice.
Our daughter has given up on her brother. She had a small child-free wedding last year. Our daughter-in-law was “insulted” her twins were not part of the ceremony and refused to attend, even though we offered to find a babysitter. Our son declined to come at all. All this breaks our hearts. We love our grandchildren and our son, but having them dangled in front of us and dragged away hurts. The last straw was our son telling us we were calling him (and him alone) “excessively” and “we” didn’t think this was healthy. Now we are forbidden to call and must wait for when our son and daughter-in-law decide they want to. My wife and I don’t know what to do. Help.
—Not Our Boundaries
For the time being, at least, you should not call your son, since he has asked you to stop. I’d also encourage you to take this break from regular contact to reflect on some of your grievances. Having children who don’t live close by is not a personal attack. Neither is being asked to stay in a hotel during visits! You have, I think, missed several opportunities to stop taking fairly straightforward logistical decisions personally. I fear you also missed an opportunity to be gracious and understanding when your daughter-in-law gave birth to twins and postponed your first visit until she and your son had been able to develop something of a manageable parenting rhythm. I can appreciate how eager you were to meet your grandchildren, but being asked to wait two months is a reasonable request. If your daughter-in-law decided she wanted to have some of her own relatives in the hospital with her during the birth, she was well within her rights to do so, given that she was the one actually giving birth. Nor do I share your resentment about their wedding; it’s often customary (but hardly mandatory) for the parents of the bride and/or groom to contribute financially without buying themselves the right to dictate the event itself.
Your daughter-in-law’s decision to treat your daughter’s child-free wedding as a personal slight also strikes me as an unreasonable one. I can appreciate your frustration that neither she nor your son decided to attend even after you offered to help them find a babysitter. But what’s done is done on that front, and I don’t think you should use that as an excuse to start calling again when both your son and his wife have made it clear that you’ve been doing it too often and too forcefully. It will serve you better to think of your son not as a prize that someone else can “dangle in front of [you]” or drag away but as an adult who has let you know the terms upon which he’s prepared to have a relationship with you.
Danny and Lisa discuss the letter
Daniel Lavery: in terms of “We don’t know what to do” I think the answer is pretty straightforward right now
which is, Don’t call your son! He has asked you not to call him
you can feel free to use some of the time you used to spend calling him in considering what you might want from your relationship in the future, but you can also just spend that time hanging out
take more walks, take up papier-mâché, anything you want
Lisa McIntire: maybe spend some time working through your anger and contempt and entitlement!
It really struck me how angry the letter writer is
yes, your daughter-in-law is going to believe in her boundaries!
but remember that you have boundaries too: if you don’t like babysitting at a moment’s notice, you are in your rights to decline
Daniel Lavery: yeah the line about “she only seems to believe in her boundaries” seemed to me to lack clarity on what the LW actually wants in terms of their own boundaries outside of a general sense of “as much as she has”
like, did you not want to pay for the wedding? did you consider saying so?
you do not have to pay for your kids’ weddings! it’s not like refusing to pay for their shoes when they’re eight
Lisa McIntire: I can imagine several parties getting exhausted by the transactional nature of the relationships
all this tallying! I do this, I get that.
Daniel Lavery: yeah, and I really think if you’re going to pay for some of or all of your kid’s wedding, it should just be as a gift
not because you think it entitles you to dictate the ceremony
that just strikes me as a fairly joyless approach that’s very likely to result in unnecessary frustration
but man, beyond that, if your complaint is “they moved to a part of the country nearer to her relatives than me” and “we only visit twice a year” I just do not have a lot of sympathy
Lisa McIntire: totally
Daniel Lavery: visiting twice a year is fine, staying in a motel is fine! having two houseguests is a lot, especially if they’re relatives, and you should have been cheerful about the motel request and focused on the time you did have together
if you ever told your kids “I want good attitudes and smiles for the rest of this trip” while they were fighting in the backseat of the car, this is the time to turn that energy on yourself
Lisa McIntire: I think the letter writer should also entertain the possibility that their son is letting the wife appear like the bad guy because it’s easier than dealing with parental wrath
Daniel Lavery: oh yeah
also, sometimes adult children go along to get along when it’s “just them” having to put up with frustrating dynamics, but if they get a partner they often think “wait, I don’t really want my wife to have to go through that, let’s stop doing that”
so it might look to you as a parent that all of a sudden this evil woman came along and ruined your fun son
but the likelier explanation is being with her helped him realize he didn’t actually want to keep giving you everything you wanted forever, and she provided him with a helpful emotional buffer
Lisa McIntire: yes, definitely! he now has a witness
Daniel Lavery: I will say that not going to the wedding because the twins couldn’t be in it, even after you offered to find a babysitter, sounds genuinely frustrating
I’m sorry! I’d be sad and cross in your position too — but I do wonder if that was more of a “final straw” thing because it sounds like things have been pretty tense for a while
Lisa McIntire: oh, I can certainly imagine there were many more elements in that decision
Daniel Lavery: but if your kid says “you’re calling me too much, this isn’t healthy, from now on i’m going to call you when i’m available and outside of those times I don’t want to talk”
then your kid is giving you the gift of trying to save your relationship before he cuts you off entirely
LW, you say “Trying to have an honest discussion is useless; our daughter-in-law will stand up and tell us we need “to respect my family’s boundaries or you will not see us,” and leave”
but you say nothing about what kind of ‘honesty’ you’re pushing for in those conversations!
Lisa McIntire: right
Daniel Lavery: it sounds like you have occasionally been confusing “honesty’” for “getting what I want” or even just “getting angry”
Lisa McIntire: yes
Daniel Lavery: and to that I’d just say, yeah, it tracks that your kid is essentially putting you in time-out
Lisa McIntire: There doesn’t seem to have been any curiosity
Daniel Lavery: none of that means your son and his wife have made exclusively perfect decisions
and it makes sense that you’d feel annoyed about getting asked to babysit last-minute when you have such a volatile relationship
but you absolutely have got to approach this with *some* curiosity and open-mindedness, and with *some* sense of your son’s autonomy
Lisa McIntire: and maybe interrogate some of the entitlement you express!
plus your obvious contempt for your daughter-in-law
Daniel Lavery: yeah it’s really hard to approach this with “I have contempt for you and also I want more contact”
and fundamentally if someone says “you’re calling me too much, it’s unhealthy, and you need to stop”
you need to respect that
the answer is not “pick away at their reasoning until I decide it’s unreasonable to ask me to stop calling”
Lisa McIntire: “why would someone try to limit my contact when I am 100% negative about her always”
Daniel Lavery: “I just hate your wife and think she’s a vicious harridan! Why don’t you want to take my next four calls in a row?”
Lisa McIntire: “Harriet and her BOUNDARIES, always with the boundaries!”
that’s just being an adult and living your life how you want!
Daniel Lavery: I am having a tough time imagining getting *angry* at someone who has just had twins for saying “please wait to visit until we have had a few months to establish some semblance of a schedule”
she just had twins!
that’s two babies at the same time, that’s TWICE the sleep deprivation
and yes, she had some of her relatives at the hospital, because *she was giving birth to twins* and would rather have her own mom in the room with her than her father-in-law who thinks she’s a piece of shit
that makes sense to me!
you are just not allowed to get mad at someone for not inviting you into the delivery room
I don’t care who you are or how much you want to be there
Lisa McIntire: and again, no curiosity or empathy about why she came to that decision
the conclusion is: this woman is “crazy,” and everything stems from there. nothing about what behavior might cause her reaction
Daniel Lavery: right, and his son is a puppet or a prize she can “dangle” and not a person who’s clearly making decisions in concert with her
people often get really upset when their children grow up and can start making their own decisions that might conflict with their parents’ wishes
Lisa McIntire: I can imagine it would be very difficult to raise children and not feel entitled to be in their lives as much as you used to be. but that just isn’t how it works! they do not owe you unlimited access, however much you want it
Daniel Lavery: they will grow up!
Lisa McIntire: it would be so much more helpful to approach it like, what can I do to make being around me pleasant and supportive and loving? rather than, I expect and deserve XYZ however I behave
Daniel Lavery: especially if there’s an undercurrent of “I deserve XYZ because I spent money on your wedding”
Lisa McIntire: my parting thought is:
Rather than seeing boundaries as a punishment, think of it as a chance to show your respect for your son and his wife. Prove to them that you can listen, learn, and grow. And feel free to enforce your own boundaries! It’s not a dirty word, I promise.
Daniel Lavery: That’s great, and to that I’ll add, “enforcing your own boundaries” in this context does not mean “trying to punish your kid for having boundaries by announcing arbitrary rules in retaliation, nor in trying to make them feel guilty for only hosting your visits twice a year”
no subject
One thing that is really really obviously missing in this letter about visit and family gatherings is any mention of the fact that people have had extra boundaries about gatherings in the past year. Everybody seems to be offering a tiny thread of sympathy about the sister's wedding, but it was last year!! During a pandemic! "We are only going to a wedding this year if we're part of the wedding party" seems like a very reasonable boundary to set in 2020! (Most of the weddings in my extended circle last year, in fact, were "wedding party only" weddings!)
no subject
yes, this! I was just thinking of how to phrase this -- I didn't at all trust the way they reported the DIL's Outrage considering the swiss cheese that is the rest of the letter. I was thinking that making her sound like an Entitled Parent might be a way to frame a reasonable decision as unreasonable.
no subject
Oh goodness yes, not to mention that "we would rather not leave our babies with a stranger during a pandemic, however kindly you meant the offer of finding a babysitter".
no subject
no subject
no subject
Send birthday and holiday cards if you wish, but only if you can do so without expecting anything in return. But no long letters outlining your grievances and why son, and especially DiL, are wrong. And stop calling. There is, quite simply, nothing else you can do that won't make things worse.
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
(I suspect this is "on our twice yearly visits, they ask us to babysit the grandkids one night so they can go out")
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
If the DIL actually pitched a fit the way the LW describes, I too am not on her side. But I don't think I trust the LW as far as I could throw them.
no subject
no subject