petrea_mitchell: (Default)
petrea_mitchell ([personal profile] petrea_mitchell) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2024-07-08 09:56 am

Miss Manners: Remote work has destroyed my dating life

Actual headline: Work-from-home employee mourns missed chances to meet women

Dear Miss Manners: You’ve always advised against mixing social life with work, although I’m not sure why. And now I read that the generation entering the workforce agrees with you, and is not particularly interested in having work friends.

Hey, I miss my office friends now that we're working from home! Work was also where I met women. I met my ex-wife at a previous job. (Sure, we all know you're not supposed to date at the office, but we all do.)

I like my job, but the higher-ups are okay with people coming in just once or twice a week. So when people do come in, they need to spend the time looking like they’re really working, if you know what I mean, and not being friendly like we used to.

Frankly, I'm lonely a lot of time, and I bet I'm not the only one. I tried going to coffee shops where people work during the day, but they're all pounding away on their laptops or yapping on the phone. I can't just break in and get acquainted.

What do you suggest? I’m tired of having only virtual “friends,” who are probably not even who they say they are.


What about those work friends whom you miss? Don’t you see them after work hours? And if not, were they really friends? Or just agreeable co-workers?

Yes, real friendships are sometimes made at work. Miss Manners' caution was to apply a test: If you were fired, would they still be your friends? Or, in your case: If they don't see you as a matter of course, will they make an effort to see you?

Even without the pandemic, we would have been due for a reaction against the all-work-and-no-play pattern that was prevalent. Or rather, all-work-and-work-related-play. Work, including after-hours gatherings and retreats, was expected to trump personal commitments and obligations. People felt defined by, and defined one another by, their jobs, with family- or child-related work the least rewarded.

At the same time, society's social structures fell into disuse. Wives whose husbands had supported the family entered the workforce themselves and no longer had time to run the social, civic and religious activities that threw people together.

Businesses tried to turn this to their advantage, setting up after-hours drinks and retreats to promote pseudo-socializing among employees. But the pandemic made many people realize that they might prefer to spend time with those they had chosen themselves — such as their families — rather than with whomever their employer had happened to hire. But you enjoyed such associations and found them a source of friendships. Now that this has been withdrawn, you are on your own.

The comfort Miss Manners can offer you is that such work patterns were so common that there must be others in your position. Starting with those work friends, take the initiative in organizing informal get-togethers, and encourage them to bring others.
movingfinger: (Default)

[personal profile] movingfinger 2024-07-08 05:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe LW should log out of the catfishing sites and cultivate some hobbies.
ioplokon: purple cloth (Default)

[personal profile] ioplokon 2024-07-08 05:42 pm (UTC)(link)
take the initiative in organizing informal get-togethers, and encourage them to bring others.
I really think this, the real advice, should have come earlier, but maybe the preamble is necessary to get LW on board. Though, I think it would also be good to encourage LW to take up some non-work activities as well.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my dad, who was amazed that I had friends and did things with them. I explained that I, you know, organized things and invited people to them. It's interesting how not-obvious this is to a lot of people (and as an aside, how people will turn around and try to make you feel shitty for doing this kind of work, like saying it is "low status" or a sign that people don't like you enough to do it for you).
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[personal profile] minoanmiss 2024-07-08 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
and as an aside, how people will turn around and try to make you feel shitty for doing this kind of work, like saying it is "low status" or a sign that people don't like you enough to do it for you).

ugh I hate that so very much.
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[personal profile] ioplokon 2024-07-09 05:18 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah. I like hosting (tho not the cleanup) & think it's something more guys would enjoy if they did, but apparently people have weird hangups about it.

(I'm sure this attitude is not exclusive to men, but that's where I've encountered it and it does seem a bit like a This Whole Thing Smacks of Gender situation...)
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[personal profile] minoanmiss 2024-07-09 09:37 am (UTC)(link)

Yeha, I've seen what you describe. I've seen women deride Being The One Who Gets People Together in a I Don't Want To Do It So I'll Say It Sucks way, and men deride it as Girly Therefore Weak And Unworthy way. Sigh.

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[personal profile] full_metal_ox 2024-07-09 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
And then, if the string should break, watch the friend group snap and scatter like so many beads.
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[personal profile] castiron 2024-07-09 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Even before we had to turn the living room into a kid's bedroom, Spouse never wanted to have people over; the piles of clutter that don't bother him day-to-day suddenly become a problem when he knows other people will see them.
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)

[personal profile] redbird 2024-07-08 05:53 pm (UTC)(link)
That complaint about "the generation entering the workforce" is telling--LW is unhappy that he doesn't have easy social access to younger women. If he was looking to meet women his own age or older, it wouldn't matter that younger women didn't want to come into the office in order to socialize.

Or, he'd rather believe this is unique to "the younger generation," than consider that a lot of people don't want to spend lots of time at the office "being friendly like we used to" rather than getting their work done and going home, or going out with people they don't work with. How dare people who know they shouldn't date at work, not date at work?
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[personal profile] tielan 2024-07-09 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, I was eyeing that statement and thinking "so, you're looking to glom onto younger women at work; nope, not predatory at all..."

Maybe it's just that I disliked his "Sure, we all know you're not supposed to date at the office, but we all do" attitude. An "but everyone does it" attitude is not likely to come with a particularly admirable person.
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[personal profile] torachan 2024-07-09 05:15 am (UTC)(link)
Also, I just don't think that's true of the generation currently entering the workplace at all. Do they perhaps not want to make friends with this guy who is however much older than them? Very likely. But all the college kids and young people in their twenties in my company make friends with each other and hang out outside of work, friend each other on social media, etc. (That said, I work in retail, so there's not the option of wfh, since all work by necessity needs to be done in the store. But I do think it's more likely that they are just not interested in being friends with him, rather than in general.)
jadelennox: Judith Martin/Miss Manners looking ladylike: it's not about forks  (judith martin:forks)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2024-07-08 10:10 pm (UTC)(link)

but they're all pounding away on their laptops or yapping on the phone. I can't just break in and get acquainted

yeah, dude, because it's the work day, and they're working. Why do I wonder if you were the interrupting colleague before remote work?

Also

I met my ex-wife at a previous job. (Sure, we all know you're not supposed to date at the office, but we all do.)

We don't all. I have zero judgement against people who date at the office, and I do know multiple happy long-term work couples, but also I know multiple utter train wrecks from at-work relationships, and they tend to pull in everyone on the team. Personally I'm happier when I'm nowhere near a work dating situation, as an observer.

Anyway kudos to MM for this part of the response:

What about those work friends whom you miss? Don’t you see them after work hours? And if not, were they really friends? Or just agreeable co-workers?

Although to be fair, I think LW was very happy to have agreeable colleagues. Nonetheless, calling up his old work friends to see if anyone wants to go play candlepin or have a Bridgerton marathon seems like a fine idea.

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[personal profile] neotoma 2024-07-08 11:56 pm (UTC)(link)
LW should find a hobby they enjoy and join the local clubs for that hobby, so they can make friends outside of work.

Also, women at work aren't there for LW to date, they are there to work, and can probably find people they want to date in their social circle and hobby activities.
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)

"actual title"

[personal profile] redbird 2024-07-09 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
On the UExpress website, the headline is "How Am I Going To Meet My Next Ex-Wife Working From Home?"
conuly: (Default)

Re: "actual title"

[personal profile] conuly 2024-07-09 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
That was the snarky title I saw!
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[personal profile] conuly 2024-07-09 12:33 am (UTC)(link)
The headline I saw was super snarky, something along the lines of "Without work, how is he supposed to meet his next ex-wife?"
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[personal profile] firecat 2024-07-09 12:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Frankly, I'm lonely a lot of time, and I bet I'm not the only one. I tried going to coffee shops where people work during the day, but they're all pounding away on their laptops or yapping on the phone. I can't just break in and get acquainted.

I cringe to think of the multiple interactions that must have taken place in order for him to figure this out.