agonyaunt | (no subject)

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My 13-year-old niece “Lacey” suffers from several learning disabilities and was drowning in the public school system. My brother approached our parents and me for help paying to put Lacey in a private school with smaller classes and more individualized learning. It is expensive as all hell, but Lacey has been thriving these last three years. The problem is that our parents are retiring and can’t afford to keep paying their share while my husband and I are looking to buy a vacation home near his family (they live overseas). This will be Lacey’s last year. Only my brother refuses to tell Lacey anything. Instead he is rallying against my husband and me for being “selfish” and putting a house over the well-being of Lacey. I have offered to pay for private tutoring until Lacey graduates but Lacey is my niece, not my daughter.

We have been extremely generous until now, but we didn’t accept it would be forever. My brother and husband got into it about the tuition, and my husband made several unkind remarks about my brother’s ability as a father. My brother isn’t speaking to either of us now. Honestly, I am worried about Lacey but more tired with the lack of maturity of her father. He refuses to see reason and keeps burying his head in the sand on the subject. What do we do here?

—Three Years Is Enough

Dear Three Years,

The advice I wish I could give is to go back in time and be clear that you were offering to pay for Lacey’s education a year at a time, for as long as you could comfortably afford it in addition to your own needs and wants, not that you were planning to sponsor her until her graduation. Alternatively, I wish I could go back in time and tell you not to be quite so explicit about prioritizing a luxury purchase over your niece’s well-being. I’m not saying you and your husband were wrong for making that choice. It’s your money! It’s totally your choice! The framing just might have been a little bit hard to hear, for people who thought you were all equally invested in supporting this child.

Your husband should apologize for his attack on his brother’s parenting, and even if they aren’t able to repair their relationship, you should make sure the tutoring is paid for. You’re doing it for Lacey, not her dad. Invite her to your vacation home sometime, too!

https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/10/dear-prudence-school-vs-vacation-house.html

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Oh, ffs. My opinion may be unpopular, or it might not be, but here it is: Lacey's father isn't being the immature person here, LW and Husband are. Just fucking suck it up and pay the tuition and stop whining, LW.

Maybe I'd have a different opinion if Lacey was in, like, the third grade, or if this was their primary home that they were trying to buy. But they want to pull tuition for her senior year for this nonsense? They can buy that vacation home just as easily next year as this one.

And for what it's worth, if they have the money that these are their biggest problems, they probably have the money to hire a decent lawyer to force the school district to pay for this superior program once they can prove that the public schools were totally failing to educate this child. This is a thing you can do in the USA, though as always it's a thing mostly you can only do if you're wealthy or have some pretty powerful backers.

Edited 2023-10-31 17:44 (UTC)

Oh, I agree with you 100%, my only question is it really only one more year? The niece is 13, so isn't it more like 3-5? LW says "this will be Lacey's last year" but I think they mean "last year in the expensive private school in which she is thriving" not "last year of schooling".

If LW & spouse are determined to have the vacation home this year, but LW is willing to spend some money on tuition for her niece, are there options around using that money towards loan payments, so that LW's brother can spread out the cost of the remaining school fees?

Yeah, I edited my comment when I realized that I possibly misread. All the same, it's still a maximum of, what, four more years at that school? They clearly have the money, and the entire point of money is to spend it. On important things.

Yeah. On the one hand, buying a vacation home (alternate scenario: ...renting? hotels? staying with family?). On the other hand, educational opportunities for their niece who has already been failed by the available public school (alternate scenario: she goes back to being failed by that school? they find another benefactor? they get a lot of scholarships?). The downside on one of those is a lot bigger than the other one, and Lacy's not getting a say in this matter, and it's her life and her future that are being played with.

"Sorry, you have to leave the school you love, where you're learning a love and making friends, and go back to a school that will fail you and not teach you anything for years, because your aunt and uncle want better vacays." No. The LW thinks they're punishing the father, but the father isn't the one who will have to live the consequences of this decision every day.

I don't think it's at all a given that public high school (with extra support as necessary) would be worse for Lacey than private high school. It's a whole different ball game than whatever she was going through in fourth or fifth grade. Indeed, it's entirely possible that the private high school may be way more of a pressure-cooker environment (and hence worse for someone with LDs) than the middle school is. That's quite a common pattern. But of course we don't know the specifics. We do know she shouldn't be a football here.

Also, considering that the LW is signed as "Three Years Is Enough", how long do they think school is for? Do they think the learning disabilities will magically go away? Oh, yes, three years is definitely enough! After three years, the magical learning disability fairy will arrive and wave her magic wand.

But it doesn't seem to be a school that caters especially to those with LDs. It just offers smaller classes and more personal attention. If that's the level of help Lacey needed to thrive, it is actually possible that she has gotten to the point where she can manage in more environments. Or she may in fact need more specialized help than the private school provides, in which case LD-informed tutoring would be better.

I definitely read "individualized learning" as code for a school specializing in kids with learning disabilities.

That's another very important piece of missing/unclear information. It matters exactly what they're paying for when you're trying to decide if an alternative is acceptable.

My older kid is in a school that touts its individualized learning, but it is not for kids with LDs (although some kids with LDs go there). It's just a small private school.

Schools specializing in LDs are often called "approved private schools" and tuition is usually free to the parents (the school district pays it).

Cool!

We don't know that LW is in the US, though.

I think that's right. And typically private high school is even more than private middle school. But doesn't the school have any financial aid? (I realize that frequently means that the tuition is brought down to "eyewatering sum one first thought of" rather than "twice the eyewatering sum one first thought of." But I thought it was weird the option wasn't mentioned.)

I think the adults on both sides should have been way clearer about their expectations from the get-go. I mean, if it had been me I would have asked immediately whether this was for a year or two to get her back on her feet, or if they pictured her staying in private school through middle school or through high school. The parents might not have known at that point, but it would have been an opportunity for boundary-setting.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I disagree. Lacey's father is refusing to tell Lacey -- who is probably entering high school next year if she's with her agemates, and therefore needs to APPLY to high schools NOW. Like, right now. It might already be too late in some areas for applications. Last year my now-9th-grader toured high schools starting in September and chose one by December; my middle schooler was applying to a public magnet and had to finish their initial application by the first week of December, including a small portfolio, and have a full portfolio ready by January for audition interviews.

Whether or not LW and her husband CAN or SHOULD pay the tuition is less relevant here than the timeline. LW's brother CANNOT keep burying his head in the sand and refusing to adjust; if LW and her husband bend, well, that's fine -- but if they DON'T, it will mean that Lacey is FUCKED on high school selection.

Well, admittedly I wouldn't know anything about this, NYC high school admissions is a total monster, but apparently there are places where you just... go to the local high school.

Yeah, there are plenty of places like that.

*waves* That's us. My kid just went to the local high school. There was no process beyond the parents filling out a few forms.

Honestly, I would be pretty pissed off if any of my siblings were entitled enough to believe that I was obligated to continuously fund their childrens' educations. One of the things I was taught growing up is that you can't count the money is someone else's pockets - yes, it's great if someone is able and willing to assist with something, but when Lacey's father made the decision to enroll her in the special school, he also should have been looking into what other options were available in the event that his brother and parents weren't in a position to continue offering financial support. I am 100% with LW and her husband on this one.

The problem is that our parents are retiring and can’t afford to keep paying their share

Let's not overlook this, because it means LW and her husband are being expected to shoulder double their share of private school starting next year. LW insinuates that even what they currently pay is massively expensive. And we don't know how much (if any) the brother contributes towards the cost, but clearly he's in no position to assume his parents' share.

while my husband and I are looking to buy a vacation home near his family (they live overseas)

Not knowing how much LW pays for her niece currently is a big factor, but apparently it competes with affording a vacation house. Now they're being expected (not asked) to pay double their share of the private school. Personally I believe they should put off any vacation house purchase to pay for Lacey's final year, but really, they are not obligated to do that, and the brother is being unreasonable in expecting they should.

(Now depending on where husband's family lives, it may be cheaper to buy the vacation home instead of paying for hotels. We know nothing of that situation so I'm not going to judge.)

The advice I wish I could give is to go back in time and be clear that you were offering to pay for Lacey’s education a year at a time, for as long as you could comfortably afford it in addition to your own needs and wants, not that you were planning to sponsor her until her graduation.

I completely agree, this should have been discussed and agreed on beforehand. For now though, imho LW is offering a reasonable compromise (private tutor) if they decide to go ahead with buying the vacation home. No it's not private school, but it is what LW believes they can afford. It's on the brother to look into all other funding options available to keep Lacey at the school if he won't accept that offer.

Yeah, oddly the grandparents are not being blamed at all in this letter. Perhaps they were sacrificing money that they would otherwise have been able to use in retirement, while the aunt is actually richer? Or perhaps no one wants to cross the parents. Or maybe the parents did set a boundary of "we can manage X per year until we retire" and that was accepted.

NB though: she's thirteen, so it's 4-5 years. "Final" just means they're not paying anymore.

Yeah, I see that I mis-read it. I initially read it as, the coming year would be Lacey's final year at that private school. I still believe the brother is unreasonable to expect LW and husband to pay their and the grandparents' share of private school, especially until Lacey graduates.

If LW is using the grandparents' retirement as an excuse to also get out of the private school arrangement, then that is selfish, though it is also their choice. I wonder if that might be the case, since LW is offering private tutoring as a compromise.

I'm not actually sure that it *did* cause the family aid to change. I do think LW is only obligated to pay what they were already paying - although since it doesn't sound like they couldn't pay the whole thing, I can still see why BIL is annoyed at them prioritizing the vacation home. They could at least have kept their mouth shut about what they wanted to use the cash for.

The grandparents' retirement caused the tuition budget to change which is something that the brother could have (and should have) predicted. It's not like it's a surprise that Grandma and Grandpa planned on retiring.

I also agree that they should continue paying (assuming they can afford the double amount merely by not buying a second home), but it's possible that that isn't really an option for LW. Maybe it's an issue in her marriage if her husband's family is far away and a lot of money has been spent on hers.

But it sounds like the decision about the money has been made already and she's trying to ask what else she can do about her relationship with her brother. An adult who throws an emotional tantrum and flings insults at his in-laws because they refused him money is being immature, no question, but is there anything you can do about that? Not really! Clear boundaries about financial transactions are always a good idea, but I doubt they would have quelled his resentment. LW and her brother have a fundamental disagreement about the obligations in their relationship. He thinks she and her husband morally owe as much help as they can afford to his daughter and they disagree. He thinks their position is selfish, and ultimately the answer is, "Yes, it is". They can do whatever they want with their own money, but they can't prevent people from thinking it's selfish if they spend it on themselves. Many people out there would argue that it's his expectations that are out of whack (though this is a cultural issue). If she just wants reassurance on that point, sure, plenty of people would say you're not being a horrible person! But the brother isn't going to care.

My cultural assumptions, now that I try to verbalize them, are that stronger obligations go from parent to child and occasionally vice versa, than from sibling to sibling or aunt/uncle to nibling. (I don't say there is any right or wrong here, just that I was raised on these unspoken assumptions.) So it's less surprising to me that the grandparents ponied up than that the sister did. (My father even helped pay for my brother's stepson to go to parochial school, despite their being barely acquainted, and I was only mildly surprised, but none of us siblings would have thought to offer.)

Yep. I'd be okay with asking my parents for help, but I wouldn't dream of asking my siblings unless it was life-or-death, and my siblings have significantly higher household incomes than I do. (So do my parents, but I figure their income's going for medical stuff, and if Dad dies before Mom then Mom's going to suddenly be a lot poorer.)

Interesting, because I definitely feel more-or-less the same obligation to my siblings as I do to my parents/children. Certainly across my own four siblings, our parents, and the last two decades we've had different people supporting others at different times, very much on the basis of who had surplus and who was in need, and how that's changed over time.

Agreed. Unless you have a particularly bad relationship with your siblings, or weren't really raised as siblings and are cordial but only related in name only, I would assume you have a pretty strong obligation to them.

Unlike your parents, they'll likely be with you for your *entire life*, after all.

Well, in my extended family, there's a lot of pitching in to help out, but it's usually not monetary between adult siblings. Things like my aunts and uncles would pay airfare to fly my parents to visit them after my dad was in an accident because my mom wasn't safe to drive it with narcolepsy, or one of my uncles would drive nine hours to pick them up and drive them there. One of my uncles has a disabled child and has always had lower income and the help they got was in the form of invitations out and free babysitting, hand-me-down furniture, etc, from siblings. I have an aunt who often couldn't afford the travel to family get-togethers and my parents would offer to drive to her house and pick her up on our way (a detour of a few hours out of an eleven-to-thirteen hour drive). These are American families, the one of Polish catholic midwestern farmer background, the other NYC Jewish.

My wife is a Swedish-speaking Finn and one of her sisters in law is a millionaire. When my mil turned 60 she told (not asked) her three children that she wanted to be taken to a posh Japanese spa in Stockholm with the entire family, six adults and six grandchildren, some of whom were toddlers at the time. The trip required two overnight trips on a ferry and three days in a bed and breakfast and the three siblings divided this cost evenly, even though as stated, one brother is married to a millionaire. The other brother's wife was in grad school at the time, and I was unemployed; we were already skimping on our food purchases when she got this bill. They didn't even offer to loan it to us temporarily. (The whole trip was a nightmare because of all the small children, the hideous weather, and the stupid overhyped spa, but that's another rant.) When my wife had a mental health crisis, millionaire sil (a therapist) gave her a reference to a private therapist with the right specialization, but nobody offered to help pay for the therapy so she stopped after social security wouldn't pay any more.

The other brother's wife was in grad school at the time, and I was unemployed; we were already skimping on our food purchases when she got this bill.

Holy shit, that's horrifying.

If someone doesn't have enough money for food, they should be able to say "Sorry, Mum, that expensive holiday that you want is just not possible for us right now."

I guess my wife didn't feel she could say that to whomever it was who needed to hear it, but yeah, my view definitely aligns with yours.

I am not saying people raised this way don't help their siblings/niblings monetarily. I just mean they aren't obliged to consistently do so. E.g., my sibs and I routinely got birthday money from our grandparents, but not from our uncle or aunt, who had big families of their own to see to. They were kind and hospitable and so on, and if any of us had been in a real jam where they could have helped I am sure they would have been happy to, but they weren't the ones stepping up over and over to pay for music lessons or something. They were also not expected to leave us any money, nor were my parents expected to leave anything to their niblings. My parents' childless aunts/uncles often did, but were seen as having the choice whether to be that sort of relative or not.

Yeah, totally. Though I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a rich aunt or uncle was helping out - that's happened multiple times within my acquaintance, or to people they knew - even to my mom on a smaller scale. But grandparents helping is a frequent thing whereas the idea that the uncles and aunts would feel obligated seems a little foreign. I mean, it wouldn't happen in my family, either side, both American but different backgrounds. And it wouldn't happen to either side of my inlaws, both Finland Swedish, either. Helping out, yeah, but it's always at the offering aunt or uncle's instigation; nobody in the family would condone the idea that they were obligated.

On what to do now: LW should consider buying a vacation home elsewhere. There's no reason to buy a home near the brother if the brother no longer wants to see LW or her husband.

The vacation home is near her husband's parents, not her brother.

Right you are. I misread.

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