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Two letters to Carolyn Hax
1. Dear Carolyn: I raised two kids, and I stayed home full time when they were small. Once I went back to work — my youngest was 4 — my life basically revolved around my job and my kids. I made lunches and took them to school in the morning, worked, then came home and spent the rest of my day focused on them.
I’m not saying that’s the only way to do it, but I distinctly remember having almost no energy left over and having to drop some friendships, activities and social groups.
Now my son and his wife, “Linda,” have two children under 6, and Linda has a dance card full of activities every single week. For a long time, it was her and my son’s business, but I am asked to babysit now at least twice a week, sometimes more often. I always say yes because I love my grandchildren, but I catch myself thinking it’s not fair — not to the kids, not to my son and not to me — that Linda seems not to have slowed down her social life whatsoever since having small children.
Is there a gracious way to intervene, or do I just carry these feelings in silence?
— Anonymous
Anonymous: Oh, hell no to intervening, oh my goodness. You had it right with, “I’m not saying that’s the only way to do it.” But you let the rest of your question undermine that valid and highly useful idea.
You and Linda are different people with different styles and energy levels. Your grandkids are different from your kids, with different needs and energy levels. You raised your kids at a time very different from now — when it is finally sinking in that it’s not okay to blame the mom!!! but not the dad for the way your son and Linda choose to raise their children.
I am too slow a typist for all these huffy italics.
Let’s keep going with the things-have-changed idea: You say yourself you were whacked at the end of the day — because you loved your kids and wanted to be a good mom, yes, I’m sure. But wasn’t there some part of you also wondering why only moms were expected to erase themselves making sandwiches? Maybe your happiest move is to stand and applaud your generation for helping to reverse the trend of erasure.
I mean, some parents still want to be parents your way — and that’s great! That actually replaces erasure with agency. So what I’m saying is, do you really wish it upon every mom, but not dad, the drudgery you had — kids job kids sleep job kids sleep kids job kids? Or do you celebrate any progress toward fuller lives and balance — and happier, therefore better, parents?
If you don’t want to babysit so much, then say no. Your prerogative. Agreeing to it when you resent how “unfair” it is is unfair. But if you enjoy it, or are happy with x days/week only, then agree to that freely. Your grandkids are getting a great deal: parents who are present but also model a life outside the home, and abundant grandparent time. I’d argue that’s a richer menu, especially if Linda would be resentful by now if she had chosen your “way to do it.”
I haven’t even gotten into the issue of butting in, either. Your good graces with this family are too precious to squander. The best way to maintain them is to adopt this mantra: “Their way is their way! Good for them.”
Link
*****
2. Dear Carolyn: I have two daughters. “A” is 16, a junior in high school. “B” is 15, a freshman. B showed a gift for music at a young age. We encouraged her gift, and she works incredibly hard. When B was in junior high, she outgrew the resources we had in our town. B was accepted into a performing arts high school on partial scholarship, but this required a move to a new city. My husband and I got approval to work remotely from the new city, A is attending the public high school, B is at the performing arts school. B is absolutely thriving at her new school.
At a concert, A met a boy in B’s section and they started dating. B has the kind of focus and intensity that a lot of gifted people have, which makes them really wonderful at their gift but not always able to see the big picture. B sees this relationship as a threat to her music and wants A to break up with him and date somebody at her own school. A refuses. A and B are now engaging in verbal barbs constantly, and it’s getting very difficult to live with. My husband just ignores them and says they’re “doing teenage stuff.” I think this is way beyond normal teenage arguments and there are some very hurt feelings. I want to talk to the girls separately and together about this. My husband refuses to, but also won’t stop me if I try. Do I talk to them, or just let it play out?
— Parent
Parent: Firmly to B: “You do not get to tell other people who they can date. Not your sibling, not anybody. You don’t have to like it, but you don’t get to decide.”
Nip the bud of this egocentric thinking immediately. B already feels the power of moving an entire family to serve her interests. This happens sometimes, and can be for good reasons, but it still introduces an urgent need for balance when the opportunities for it arise organically, lest your household fall under the tyranny of her “gift.” This is one of those opportunities. Tell the tail it does not wag this dog.
To A, the only talking to is, “I have made it clear to B this is not her business, and my advice for you now — and my request — is not to engage when she oversteps into your business.” And: “Stay out of hers, too. No payback.” (Full accounting for adolescent tastes.)
So, yeah. Good luck.
A reader’s thought:
· You reeeeaaaaallllly need to take a step back and evaluate how you treat and view your kids in general. You have allowed one daughter’s needs to determine a whole lot of choices about what your entire family does — which, given her gifts, isn’t inherently a bad thing, but which does mean you need to make sure you’re showing your other child you value her as well. Instead, you’re bending over backward to justify your younger daughter’s incredibly inappropriate response to this situation by framing it as just a part of her giftedness. It sounds as though your older daughter has gone along with all this without complaint. If you want her to spend time with you willingly 10 or so years down the road, you need to view her as someone equally as important as your musician.
Link
I’m not saying that’s the only way to do it, but I distinctly remember having almost no energy left over and having to drop some friendships, activities and social groups.
Now my son and his wife, “Linda,” have two children under 6, and Linda has a dance card full of activities every single week. For a long time, it was her and my son’s business, but I am asked to babysit now at least twice a week, sometimes more often. I always say yes because I love my grandchildren, but I catch myself thinking it’s not fair — not to the kids, not to my son and not to me — that Linda seems not to have slowed down her social life whatsoever since having small children.
Is there a gracious way to intervene, or do I just carry these feelings in silence?
— Anonymous
Anonymous: Oh, hell no to intervening, oh my goodness. You had it right with, “I’m not saying that’s the only way to do it.” But you let the rest of your question undermine that valid and highly useful idea.
You and Linda are different people with different styles and energy levels. Your grandkids are different from your kids, with different needs and energy levels. You raised your kids at a time very different from now — when it is finally sinking in that it’s not okay to blame the mom!!! but not the dad for the way your son and Linda choose to raise their children.
I am too slow a typist for all these huffy italics.
Let’s keep going with the things-have-changed idea: You say yourself you were whacked at the end of the day — because you loved your kids and wanted to be a good mom, yes, I’m sure. But wasn’t there some part of you also wondering why only moms were expected to erase themselves making sandwiches? Maybe your happiest move is to stand and applaud your generation for helping to reverse the trend of erasure.
I mean, some parents still want to be parents your way — and that’s great! That actually replaces erasure with agency. So what I’m saying is, do you really wish it upon every mom, but not dad, the drudgery you had — kids job kids sleep job kids sleep kids job kids? Or do you celebrate any progress toward fuller lives and balance — and happier, therefore better, parents?
If you don’t want to babysit so much, then say no. Your prerogative. Agreeing to it when you resent how “unfair” it is is unfair. But if you enjoy it, or are happy with x days/week only, then agree to that freely. Your grandkids are getting a great deal: parents who are present but also model a life outside the home, and abundant grandparent time. I’d argue that’s a richer menu, especially if Linda would be resentful by now if she had chosen your “way to do it.”
I haven’t even gotten into the issue of butting in, either. Your good graces with this family are too precious to squander. The best way to maintain them is to adopt this mantra: “Their way is their way! Good for them.”
Link
2. Dear Carolyn: I have two daughters. “A” is 16, a junior in high school. “B” is 15, a freshman. B showed a gift for music at a young age. We encouraged her gift, and she works incredibly hard. When B was in junior high, she outgrew the resources we had in our town. B was accepted into a performing arts high school on partial scholarship, but this required a move to a new city. My husband and I got approval to work remotely from the new city, A is attending the public high school, B is at the performing arts school. B is absolutely thriving at her new school.
At a concert, A met a boy in B’s section and they started dating. B has the kind of focus and intensity that a lot of gifted people have, which makes them really wonderful at their gift but not always able to see the big picture. B sees this relationship as a threat to her music and wants A to break up with him and date somebody at her own school. A refuses. A and B are now engaging in verbal barbs constantly, and it’s getting very difficult to live with. My husband just ignores them and says they’re “doing teenage stuff.” I think this is way beyond normal teenage arguments and there are some very hurt feelings. I want to talk to the girls separately and together about this. My husband refuses to, but also won’t stop me if I try. Do I talk to them, or just let it play out?
— Parent
Parent: Firmly to B: “You do not get to tell other people who they can date. Not your sibling, not anybody. You don’t have to like it, but you don’t get to decide.”
Nip the bud of this egocentric thinking immediately. B already feels the power of moving an entire family to serve her interests. This happens sometimes, and can be for good reasons, but it still introduces an urgent need for balance when the opportunities for it arise organically, lest your household fall under the tyranny of her “gift.” This is one of those opportunities. Tell the tail it does not wag this dog.
To A, the only talking to is, “I have made it clear to B this is not her business, and my advice for you now — and my request — is not to engage when she oversteps into your business.” And: “Stay out of hers, too. No payback.” (Full accounting for adolescent tastes.)
So, yeah. Good luck.
A reader’s thought:
· You reeeeaaaaallllly need to take a step back and evaluate how you treat and view your kids in general. You have allowed one daughter’s needs to determine a whole lot of choices about what your entire family does — which, given her gifts, isn’t inherently a bad thing, but which does mean you need to make sure you’re showing your other child you value her as well. Instead, you’re bending over backward to justify your younger daughter’s incredibly inappropriate response to this situation by framing it as just a part of her giftedness. It sounds as though your older daughter has gone along with all this without complaint. If you want her to spend time with you willingly 10 or so years down the road, you need to view her as someone equally as important as your musician.
Link
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Anyway, if you don't want to babysit, start saying no. Or if you do, keep saying yes. I'm sure your son and his wife won't just ditch the kids at home while they have their fun, not when they aren't even in elementary yet, so what are you so worked up about?
(I'm thinking that if LW got a hobby of her own, she wouldn't have time to babysit or judge her DIL's life choices.)
2. JFC. I don't often say this, but this is not a situation that needs more conversation, it's a situation that needs more consequences. LW, I don't care that your younger daughter is the next Mozart, that's no justification for her being a spoiled brat. Or maybe a spiteful and resentful brat, but wherever this nonsense is coming from you need to lay down the law using whatever currency is going to be effective - no more comments about her sister's boyfriend, no more "barbs", none of it.
Her sister's dating life is not a threat to her music. Also, if she thinks she's going to make music her life she may be overdue for a reality check, and so is everybody else in this family. The music world is oversaturated with highly-talented, driven, trained young people. No matter how gifted you are, there's no guarantees, and no amount of sacrifice or passion or family support is going to make your career happen. Unless "family support" is code for "connections" or "money" in which case it might, but that's a bit more of a reality check than is warranted. This girl needs perspective, she doesn't need her dreams totally crushed.
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Sometimes when peple have it hard they don't want those coming behind them to have it easier. I think it's generally better for one's soul to want/work towards those behind us having it easier.
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Amen.
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Letter #2: I just... have so many questions. What in the world is B's thought process? Is it something like, "This guy's feelings for my sister will affect how well he's able to perform, including with me, and it's going to screw up my musical career?" Like, "Stop distracting my third chair, sis!" (I'm reminded of the line from the movie "Shakespeare in Love" where Christopher Marlowe walks in on one of his actors who's getting laid and is like, "You're playing my Faustus this afternoon, don't spend yourself in sport!") or "If you have a nasty breakup what's to stop him from sabotaging me to get back at you?" or... something else? And if B is worried that someone somewhere in the process will expect her to make her older sister's boyfriend "look good" at the expense of her own performances (e.g. let him beat her for a higher chair), then whoever that someone is is the problem and needs to be dealt with (especially if it's the boyfriend himself!). (That said, I do think B being single-minded about her music, as long as she confines it to her own life, is probably a damn good thing if she plans to make a career of it. Not least because see above on being expected to make a dude look good because of your or someone else's romantic involvement with him, at the expense of your own success.)
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I don't think it's a controversial opinion that parents should be prepared to be 100% about their kids for a while if needed, but "prepared if necessary" isn't the same things as "it's the rule, and how dare you not be exhausted and friendless like I was." Raising kids in multi-generational households in order to balance the responsibility is so very traditional that it predates civilization. And humans. And primates. And mammals. And vertebrates.
Agreed with everyone that LW can check out of this arrangement if she wants with no onus on her, but resenting Linda for taking advantage of the available help when LW didn't have it is not okay, even before you get to the Missing Son issue.
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Also, the thing where LW is like "for a long time it was her and my son's business and now she's asking ME for CHILD CARE" sounds to me like DIL is possibly, oh, idk, adding more activities as her kids get older? Or maybe Son is adding activities as well, and there are some spots where they're both busy?
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And I don't think that's a bad thing.
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It leaves you vulnerable as well. That's what happened to my mother. My parents mostly spent time with us and each other, which was freaking great for them right up until my father died and it turned out that my mother had absolutely no social net. She had to mostly go it alone because she didn't have anybody to reach out to, and it was really bad.
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Putting aside the first few months, which are called the fourth trimester for a reason, every parent I know (really know, not just chat with at school activities) has had something in their lives that doesn't revolve around their kids, even if it's just following a tv show or watching sports (both of which seem to be acceptable to the same people who judge parents for playing an RPG once a week). Of course, every parent I know, I know through something I do that doesn't revolve around my kid.
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Do you...not understand that children benefit from caregivers other than their parents? That children benefit from caregivers who are not burned out and exhausted? What you are saying makes no sense whatsoever to me.
Are you actually literally saying that if someone has a kid they should never want to be doing anything other than parenting that child at every moment? because that, which to be clear, is a completely cuckoo bananpants bonkers fucking wildly universe-breaking level of statement, seems like what you're saying. And I just can't believe that someone can believe that and type it out with their hands or nose or whatever and actually mean it.
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Children benefit from having caregivers who are good at caring for that particular child, whether it's a parent or someone else, yes. And there's certainly a benefit to kids seeing that there are other ways to be a functional adult besides how their parents are. But people who do not want to be good caregivers for whatever child they get maybe don't need to be having children. I don't even remotely see why "if you don't want to parent, don't have a child" is worth all the vitriol you heaped on me.
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"If you don't want to parent don't have a child" is a MUCH less extreme position than you were advocating above and if you can't see that I don't know how to explain it to you.
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possibly unpopular opinion here but I do actually think that if you're going to have a child both/all parents (because poly families exist) should be onboard for having their whole lives revolve around the child
and
I do tend to think that "wants to take care of the child they've created more than they want to do anything else--- including modifying and tapering off that care as the child's needs change over time" is kind of the minimum standard for bringing a child into the world
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Also, I have been quoted out of context in the first part of that. The full quote said that "... if you're going to have a child both/all parents (because poly families exist) should be onboard for having their whole lives revolve around the child, not least because there's no guarantee that the kid is not in fact going to have the kind of special needs that do pretty much take precedence over everything (whether it's a medical condition or a special talent or something else) and it's probably better to go in with the idea that that could happen and then end up with a low-maintenance offspring and some unexpected free time/disposable income." (Emphasis added.) You did see the part about the unexpected free time and disposable income? And for that matter, in the special-needs examples I mentioned, the best interests of the child might well involve having other primary caregivers--- medical professionals for the medical ones, teachers/mentors for the special talents--- and for the parents to be able to support that rather than demanding that they be the only one to care for the child, so that one can go the other way. But, again, it's about being willing to put the best interests of the child first, or... I don't see why you'd have a kid if you have the option not to, unless you want to make them your first priority.
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