Dear Prudence: [title going under cut]

[minoanmiss]

This one involves pets and hygiene and is pretty disgusting.

Q. Poop-free weekend: I have a group of college friends that have known each other for more than 20 years. We haven’t been able to hang out for a long time because of the pandemic. One of my friends, “Gabby,” offered to host the five of us for a weekend this summer. I am beyond excited to spend time with everyone.

However, I was able to see Gabby recently at her house. I hadn’t been there in years. Her house was disgusting. She allows her dog to urinate and defecate everywhere. In just the short time I was there, an afternoon, the dog peed twice and pooped once on the floors. Gabby grabbed a dry towel to wipe the urine—no cleaner, not even water in the clean-up process. The place smelled awful. I asked her why she allows her dog to do this. She didn’t want to talk about it, and just said that she leaves for work and can’t let the dog out during the day, so it is used to using the floors at its toilet.

I do not want to stay there for a weekend. I would offer my place, but we are getting our house ready to sell. I was thinking of suggesting a rental somewhere, but Gabby is single and works a low-wage job that doesn’t leave her much disposable income, and I don’t think the other friends would understand why we would need to do this without me saying that Gabby’s house is too gross to be in. Is there any way to diplomatically manage this weekend? Is there a way to do say something without hurting Gabby’s feelings and so we don’t subject everyone to her dog’s foulness?

A: Oh my! It’s neither here nor there but I really don’t understand Gabby’s reasoning and it deeply concerns me. Like, not on a clinical level or anything, just logistically and hygienically, I’m vexed. Sounds like you are, too. If you don’t want to get into it with the friend group, see if blaming it on allergens might work. Suggest that you all rent a house because you found that there’s something about Gabby’s dog that’s setting you off. It’s a weak-ish excuse but it’s not technically a lie. You should also reach out to Gabby one-on-one and offer to pay her portion of the rental, if you can, and explain that you had a reaction in the house (again, not technically a lie) and you hope she doesn’t mind. She might see through this, but I don’t know that that’s a problem. You’re not under an obligation to stay in a home that’s unpleasant and it sounds like you’re willing to do the extra work to manage everyone’s feelings around it, which is very kind.

Comments

[minoanmiss]

I have to admit sometimes I just don't understand dog people. But such is life. De gustibus non disputandum.

I am torn about the response. I know my first impulse would be to try to manage the situation "diplomatically" but I don't know. Maybe Gabby needs a sterner talking-to than all that. But maybe she'd respond with "LW obviously Kicks Puppies." in conclusion, meep.

[sciatrix]

as a lifelong dog people: this is really weird and pathological, it is gross, and it's honestly a sign that something is not okay with Gabby herself and that she needs some kind of cleaning intervention and support, which LW may or may not be positioned or willing to provide. the dog may be one symptom of a broader problem.

there is probably nothing to be said about this that will not hurt Gabby's feelings on some level, because she has desensitized herself to filth in her space to the extent that she's exposing herself to quite a lot of disease risk as well as general grossness. on no account would I personally stay in that house.

[cimorene]

Yep, all of this. I didn't grow up with a dog lifelong, but I have had a dog and people in my family have had dogs.

I can't say WHAT kind of problem is going on for Gabby - it could be depression, for example, which is enough to get many people to completely give up hope on cleaning. This kind of thing also happens with animal hoarders, obviously.

Plus my wife and I bought one of our cats from a professional breeder who had gone off the rails in similar fashion - apparently her husband had recently had to move to a nursing home because the house was not wheelchair accessible and he was living in one in the neighborhood while she was alone in the house with her cattery consisting of 23 (22?) cats, including the one we adopted. This house was a very nice and large suburban house by Finnish standards and she had simply removed almost all of the furniture with the exception of a dining room table in one room; the formal parlor had actual red velvet flocked paper and was lined in glass-fronted Chippendale cabinets, still filled with ca.1960s-70s curios and display plates, but the wallpaper was claw-shredded and piss-stained to shoulder-high all around the house. She had simply covered the floor in layers of newspaper in the hallway; she kept her bedroom shut at all times so they couldn't destroy the bed and she had her unfixed male cats isolated in a room with wall-hung cabinets taped shut with packing tape. I couldn't take my scarf off my face the whole time we were there, the stench was so strong- I could barely breathe. We couldn't really report her to animal control or anything, because all the cats were meticulously well taken care of and she seemed to spend money on nothing but food and vet visits for them. (When we took the cat away she told us to make sure to give him a pig heart from the butcher's every day. Imagine the quantity of pig hearts she was buying...!)

Yeah, sorry if tl;dr, but my point is that this situation is clearly not exactly animal hoarding (she wasn't acquiring new cats in an unsystematic way, just storing the large number of animals she already had in a crazy way) and certainly isn't animal abuse, but is also clearly distinctly abnormal and unhealthy behavior. I'm pretty sure psychological help is what's called for, but I can't say I would know what to do if I were in the friend's shoes. It would probably take a lot of talking to earn enough trust to be able to have any hope of influencing her to get help in that way, and perhaps LW isn't able to do that.

[castiron]

NO THERE IS NOT A WAY TO DO THIS THAT IS GUARANTEED NOT TO HURT GABBY'S FEELINGS. Sheesh, people, stop worrying about "how can I communicate something unpleasant without hurting someone's feelings?" and start worrying about "do I *need* to communicate something unpleasant, and if so, how do I communicate it clearly and with minimal assholery?"

If Gabby's feelings are hurt by suggesting a rental, tough. Her feelings are going to be far more hurt if the friends gather at her house and then leave early because it stinks and they're disgusted by the dog waste.

[shirou]

Were I one of the other friends, I would be pissed (pun intended) at LW for not telling me about the condition of Gabby's house. This is need-to-know information.

LW should probably forgo group communications and discreetly tell each friend one-on-one about Gabby's house. There is no need to confront Gabby or call her out publicly. Once all the friends know, any proposal to identify an alternative location should be met with near-unanimous (everyone but Gabby) enthusiasm.

[julian]

So like.

1) It's not good for Gabby or the dog to be in this situation, which I get wasn't your question, but it is my conclusion. I'm glad the LW at least *tried* to talk to her.

2) Can be (but isn't necessarily) a sign of hoarding. (Other indications weren't there, but LW might've just been undescriptive.)

3) You're so concerned! ...But won't put yourself out to actually host. Feh.

4) Pay for Gabby's part of the rental if you're that concerned, yes. (Or hell, if she matters that much to you, and you're worried, pay for a maid service for her for awhile.)

[conuly]

I asked her why she allows her dog to do this. She didn’t want to talk about it, and just said that she leaves for work and can’t let the dog out during the day, so it is used to using the floors at its toilet.

1. Hire a dogwalker - even a neighborhood kid can take the dog out for five minutes when they get home from school if money is THAT tight

2. Use back-up puppy training pads

Seriously, this is not rocket science.

[laurajv]

back in the day, we just...crate-trained our dogs. they pooped & peed in the morning (OUTSIDE), then went in the crate, and when we got home from work we let them outside again and they pooped & peed outside again. they were not loose in the house to make a big ol' gross mess.

most adult dogs who don't have a physical illness can handle a human workday in a crate with no trouble at all. once our car broke down on the way home and our dog was crated for 12 hours. she didn't LIKE it, but she was fine.

[conuly]

Crate training is more acceptable in some parts of the world than others. And honestly, I don't think it's okay to ask any animal to hold it in for 12 hours. I don't hold it in for 12 hours, I'm not asking my dog to do so.

[laurajv]

well, no, I don't ASK my dog to. I said it happened once when our car broke down, not that it was a routine practice.

[lethe1]

I'm wondering, did she get the dog during lockdown and only when she went back to work realized she couldn't take it with her? So many people have been dumping their newly-acquired pets in animal shelters after lockdown restrictions were over.

[minoanmiss]

That's a good question. I have been amazed and appalled at the stories coming out about lockdown pets acquired by deliberately ignorant people.

[ayebydan]

Oh Gabby there are so many things you can do. Use puppy pads or if that is expensive buy some cheap towels and train the dog to use them. Get some cheap cleaner to use. Ngl, my dog had a stroke when he was 6 and it means he doesn't always know when he needs the loo or in time. So we have a towel at the top of the stairs and the bottom like 'if you can't get out, go here' and if he doesn't make it there then you scrub it clean. (These towels are washed separately, live in their own basket, etc. But it doesn't sound like this is the situation here. The dog just isn't trained. If Gabby wants to live like that ok but don't invite people over. Damn.