Dear Prudence: My Sister-in Law Has No Problem Saying She Would Have Aborted Her Son

[legionseagle]

My sister-in-law casually mentioned that she would have aborted my now 3-year-old nephew, but my brother tricked her into missing the appointment. I’m shocked to learn about this, but if she is so willing to share it, what’s to stop their son from eventually finding out? I talked to my brother, and he thinks it would be no big deal if their son does eventually find out. I disagree. How can I convince them to never speak of this again?

—Wish I Hadn’t Heard This

I, too, wish I hadn’t heard this! I am as allergic to such comments in situations where a child might hear as I am to searching personal essays about parenting regret that are posted to the internet where, inevitably, an enterprising child will find them. However, this nephew is not your child, you have no control over how your brother and sister-in-law raise him, and you absolutely cannot convince them not to bring it up. Indeed it’s not even your job to do so!

Comments

[legionseagle]

Why do neither Prudie nor the LW address that the elephant in the room, namely that the nephew is the product of reproductive coercion by deception on LW's brother's part, and both LW and Dan Kois seem to think that the right thing to do is to use the child as a human shield to prevent the SiL mentioning it?

I mean, yes, it's going to be awful for the child if he hears his mother say she wishes she'd never had him but that, frankly, is the tip of the iceberg of awful which is that his father made sure his wife carried an unwanted pregnancy to term and doesn't seem to have the slightest guilt about the methods he adopted.

[shirou]

I think the issue is that LW mentioned it "casually." SIL absolutely should be free to talk about how she was manipulated in private, for example, in therapy or with friends, when her son is not present. But I agree with LW and Dan Kois that SIL (and everyone) should take care not to mention this around the child until he is older and able to process everything that happened, and at that time SIL should tell him as part of a serious conversation, not an offhand mention.

[legionseagle]

I think she should be free to talk about it with a good divorce lawyer, personally, but I don't see any evidence from LW that she "casually" mentioned it in the child's earshot; indeed, the LW is fairly clear she hasn't (yet).

[shirou]

Agree on the divorce lawyer. Maybe you're right, and SIL is already taking care not to mention this topic around her son, but Brother says it would be "no big deal" for the kid to find out, so he, at least, does not recognize the risk here.

[legionseagle]

That, to me, is another red flag about this.

[shirou]

Then we are in agreement.

[oursin]

Or he has a very icky 'Daddy hero saviour' narrative in mind.

[legionseagle]

That was what I meant by "red flag." "Oo's bad mummy tried to have oo killed, den?"

[minoanmiss]

THIS THIS SO MUCH THIS

[melannen]

I don't think this is necessarily traumatic for the kid to learn. I know people who know that about their moms. "I wish I'd never had you" is obviously a fucked up thing to tell a kid, but if you actually feel that way, they will probably figure it out anyway. "When I found out I was pregnant with you I was scared and didn't want to go through with it, but once I met you I was so glad I had you and I love you so much" is very different to hear.

And, yeah, either the brother is a piece of shit and they both need to dispose of him entirely, or there's a lot more to the story than is in the letter. (Why do I suspect LW is the kind of person who approves of tricking people out of abortions?)

[legionseagle]

Because LW is still talking to the brother?

(I also think LW's objection to her SiL mentioning it "casually" suggests that she thinks abortions should never be mentioned, and certainly not in a context that implies people like them have them or consider having them.)

[melannen]

I think it was her being "shocked" at mentioning it in company, myself. You must treat everything abortion-related as a guilty secret forever!

(Three is probably a little too young to tell on purpose, they still think parents are infallible and omniscient, but there is no evidence the three year old was there.)

[legionseagle]

Agreed on both points. But I think SiL better had tell the kid on purpose as soon as it's appropriate to do so, because it's self-evident to me that the kid's father's going to do so if she doesn't.

[lemonsharks]

How dare SIL be unashamed of her (averted :S) abortion, amirite?

[jadelennox]

Yah, my high school boyfriend was well aware that his mother had been using condoms and foam, and that his parents got married mostly to get away from their parents and had never intended to have kids. And she was perfectly sanguine when she told me that, in front of him. He was massively fucked up, but that had nothing to do with why.

A lot of that is cultural. Israeli parents who had kids in the 1970s have very different attitudes about raising children from Americans almost 50 years later. But also... it's not necessarily that traumatic.

My mother told me, after my dad died, "I didn't enjoy having small children. They were sold to me wrong." It's hilarious and infuriating because it's my mother in a nutshell that she thought she should tell me that in my 30s, but it didn't fuck me up. The fact that my mother did not enjoy being responsible for small, irrational people was blatantly obvious, for all that she was a good mum.

ETA: Also, for what it's worth, everyone, including my sister, was well aware that if there'd been the kind of pre-marriage genetic counselling that Ashkenazi Jewish communities now have as a matter of course, and if she'd been conceived two years later, my parents would have terminated the pregnancy. Everyone, including my sister, was/is massively in favor of that genetic counselling and of freedom of choice. Nobody in my family was ever thick enough to equate "we would have terminated this Tay Sachs pregnancy if we'd known and if it had been legal" with "we don't love you and want you to thrive."

The LW's brother, on the other hand, is a motherfucker who needs to be dumped already.

[lemonsharks]

My mom told me she backed out at the clinic when it didn't meet her standards for cleanliness. (Fair.)

It's something you deal with. It's not necessarily the big huge horrible traumatizing thing LW a is making it out to be. (I was also an older teenager when she shared this information: so, there is a time and a place for everything.)

She definitely needs to get the entire heck away from her husband, though, because HOLY WOW, BATMAN. She may be happier and a better parent if husband has primary custody.

[legionseagle]

Though whether the husband would be a better parent has to be open to some doubt.

[mommy]

It looks like the SIL married into a terrifying family, and I hope she gets out someday. It also looks like LW isn't aware of how terrifying their family is.

[legionseagle]

Agreed. I do hope also that "casually" in LW terms is in fact "I refuse to have my perfectly reasonable anger swept under the carpet for one second longer but I also refuse to grant you the satisfaction of having provoked me to an emotional outburst which you can use against me" in SiL's terms.

[likeaduck]

Wow.

But specifically about the response, what does Dan suggest people do when they experience parenting regret? Never tell anyone, even anonymously on the internet (I've never seen a personal essay of that variety that was signed), bury their shame and die with it and never let anyone else who feels similarly know they're not alone?

And to bring us back to the question: how much does being a parent obligate one to not express one's feelings or desires or talk about one's experiences freely?

[legionseagle]

Especially experiences which include a well-documented variety of domestic abuse.

[minoanmiss]

what does Dan suggest people do when they experience parenting regret? Never tell anyone, even anonymously on the internet (I've never seen a personal essay of that variety that was signed), bury their shame and die with it and never let anyone else who feels similarly know they're not alone?


Yes, this. The answer made me lose a lot of respect for Dan.