Dear Prudence: My daughter stole my other daughter's husband

[lemonsharks]

Q. Choosing sides: Four years ago, my daughter “Cindy’s” husband “Andy” impregnated my other daughter, “Allison.” Andy left Cindy for Allison, and our family imploded. Cindy and Allison (and my third daughter, “Alice”) were very close growing up, so Allison hurting Cindy this way came out of the blue. Cindy suffered a breakdown, and our family rallied around her. A consequence of this is that we (my husband, Alice, and I) were not as involved with Allison’s pregnancy as we would otherwise have been. Alice sided with Cindy and largely cut Allison out of her life. My husband and I have seen Allison, but we despise Andy and were incredibly disappointed in her.

Allison and Andy now have two children and seem to be very much in love. I love my grandchildren, and I see them often. But, perhaps unfairly, I always give Cindy first dibs on the holidays, and my husband and I celebrate with Allison’s family on a different date if Cindy wants to spend it with us. I know Allison longs to make amends with her sisters and is sometimes upset that my husband and I don’t broker a peace. This holiday season we got in a fight because she feels that I’ve chosen Cindy over her and am punishing her children for something she and Andy did.

Am I a bad parent or grandparent if I never approve of their marriage? Cindy is engaged now, and Allison says that when Cindy has children, she worries I will favor them over her own. She says she knows what she did was wrong but that my husband and I shouldn’t punish her forever. I don’t want to punish Allison, but I just can’t bring myself to ignore the hurt she and Andy have caused our family.

A: The question of whether you’re punishing Allison is an open one—you may be!—but alternating holidays between her and Cindy is not a punishment so much as an acknowledgment of reality. It’s also not retribution that you haven’t “brokered a peace” with someone who’s very clearly uninterested in making peace! You cannot force Cindy to forgive Allison, and it would be wrong of you to promise anything of the kind. If those are Allison’s only objections to your conduct, you should kindly but firmly let her know you make no apologies for keeping Cindy in your life or respecting her limits by not trying to force them into the same room together. You say you love your grandchildren, see them often, and seem very clear that they’re not in any way responsible for how their parents got together, so unless there’s something critical you’re leaving out here, I don’t think you have to subscribe to Allison’s fear that you might someday favor Cindy’s hypothetical children over hers. Rather, her fear seems to be the idea that you’ll continue to maintain an independent relationship with Cindy and any children she may have, and that this will sometimes mean you can’t spend time simultaneously with Allison and her children. Again, that’s not a punishment—merely a consequence of only being able to be in one place at any given time.

If, on the other hand, Allison objects to how often you bring up the circumstances of her marriage to Andy, or any other (in)direct ways you remind them of your disapproval, you might find an opportunity to change something there. You don’t ever have to like how they got together, or even pretend that you do, but it is reasonable to ask that if you’re going to maintain a relationship that you act, after four years, as if they already know your opinion on the subject, and therefore don’t need to hear about it again.

Comments

[lemonsharks]

In my humble opinion:

Allison doesn't get to be a full part of the family until and unless Andy is out of her life forever. And even then, it's Cindy's call to initiate that reintegration.

Allison and Andy's children need to be told what's up as soon as they're able to comprehend that none of this situation is their fault, regardless of what their parents want.

Some consequences. How hard it must be, to be Andy and Allison.

Just. Your spouse's siblings are unfuckable! Forever! Your ex-spouse's siblings are unfuckable! Forever! Your ex/fiance's siblings are unfuckable! Forever!

Your ex/gf, bf, or partner's siblings may VERY RARELY be a dating option with their explicit permission and if they are anything but thrilled with the idea that is a hard no and their siblings are unfuckable! Forever!

Same goes for siblings dating/fucking their siblings' beaux.

This is NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT.

A more reasonable option could be: the kids are invited regardless, Allison is invited if and only if it's ok with Cindy, and Andy is never, ever invited or welcome.

[azurelunatic]

My partner and I are non-monogamous! I have two specific limits on my partner's tomcatting:

1) Not their abusive ex, who was cruel and controlling to them for nearly a decade
2) Not my sister.

THE CONCEPT IS NOT DIFFICULT.

[welcomingsong]

Allison doesn't get to be a full part of the family until and unless Andy is out of her life forever.

Hmm. This makes it sound as if Andy is more at fault than Allison. I don’t think that’s true.

[lemonsharks]

That's not what I said.

[welcomingsong]

Well, why would it be easier / more reasonable to have one of the two people who did something awful around instead of both of them? I don’t understand.

[lemonsharks]

Allison wants to reconcile. She can't hope to fully make amends while still having Andy in her life no matter how much she apologizes.

It is reasonable for her parents to not budge on their boundaries, especially while Allison is still married to Andy.

Allison talks a big game about reconciliation, but if she wants to remain married to Andy, she needs to stop whining about how unfair it is for her big hurtful actions to have consequences.

[mirlacca]

This. Allison "says she knows what she did was wrong but that my husband and I shouldn’t punish her forever." It's not just what she DID, it's what she's DOING. If it had been a one-time encounter, Cindy still has the option of saying that she doesn't want to see her sister again; but this wasn't a one-time encounter. She broke up her sister's marriage, she's married to her sister's husband, she has kids with her sister's husband. The "punishment," if she wants to view it that way, legitimately lasts at least as long as the wrong continues.

And it's never the parents' job to "broker peace" between the sisters anyway.

[topaz_eyes]

LW says "Alison longs to make amends with her sisters," but hasn't yet after 4 years? Alison first needs to put on her big-girl panties, make her sincere apologies by herself, and accept whatever decision her sisters make about reconciling. Then she can be upset about whether LW favours Cindy over her.

[conuly]

It may be that she's tried and her sisters have thoroughly rejected her efforts. And I wouldn't blame them if that's the case, she acted reprehensibly.

[ioplokon]

This reminds me of the whole Martin Brodeur thing (though that was him cheating with and then marrying his ex-brother-in-law's wife, which is less destructive to his former family).

I think it's weird in this situation to ask the parents to broker peace. Allison & Andy need to understand that, especially given the severity of the hurt they caused, forgiveness is not guaranteed and to respect Cindy's boundaries (ie no contact). In fact, this is the only way they can show Cindy they care about her and not just their own comfort.

[feldman]

Adult takes dump on family table; whines to mommy about flies.

[green_grrl]

Cindy is engaged now, and Allison says that when Cindy has children, she worries I will favor them over her own.

Easy peasy: Allison, have an affair with Cindy’s fiancé and have children with him. Now you’re guaranteed Mom will treat them exactly the way she treats the kids with Andy! /s

It sounds like the grandparents are being good to the kids, and kids generally go along with whatever parents tell them. If it’s, “We’re seeing grandma and grandpa on Christmas Eve and having our family Christmas in the morning,” or vice versa, they’re not really going to care. If Allison is ranting in front of the kids, “I wanted to have grandparents at this time and it’s no fair they’re going to Cindy’s!” then that’s what’s going to make them feel left out.

Also, everyone needs to work out what to tell the kids if they ask about it. As little ones, all they need to know is that mom and dad did something that hurt Aunt Cindy’s feelings a lot so it’s hard for her to be around them. But by the time they’re young teenagers and understand relationships, someone needs to tell them before they find out via grapevine. And yeah, they’ll probably hate Mom and dad for a while for being so shitty. Congratulations, more consequences.

[sporky_rat]

...the only time I can think of ex's siblings being okay to date is if you discovered that you preferred your own sex, had an amiable breakup and then you dated their sibling of your same sex after making sure it wasn't weird.

But like, communication. Seriously. Big communication.

[conuly]

It's always going to be weird. Even if everybody's okay with it, it's never going to be not-weird.

[conuly]

If Andy and Allison wanted to be together that much, then they both know darn well that the way to do that was for Andy to get a divorce, without nickel and diming her sister, then wait a year or two before starting their own relationship.

And it'd still be iffy, but at least it wouldn't play as a huge betrayal. Cindy and Alice are quite right not to want to see their sister, and honestly, I think LW would be right to cut this daughter off too. It's to their credit that they've tried to maintain a relationship with her and with their grandkids - Allison needs to STFU and appreciate what she's got, because she sure doesn't deserve it.

(And given her husband's history, is she really sure she wants to hang out with her sisters again? Maybe he'd go sniffing after Alice next, collect the whole set.)

exes might not be so bad

[redbird]

The problem isn't only that Andy is now married to his ex-wife's sister and wants them to play happy families. It's that he started dating his new wife while he was married to her sister.

"I know this is weird, but I want to date my sister's ex-husband" might be OK, depending on things like how and why the original couple split up, and how long ago. Unlike this mess, it wouldn't be guaranteed to hurt the first sister, and it wouldn't have to start with the family rallying to give her much-needed support, and some of the relatives refusing to see "Allison" as a result.

Though, part of my reasoning there is that if Andy and Cindy had divorced before all this started, Allison might have tried asking Cindy if she thought this would be okay. It's still a weird thought, but "How would you feel if I dated this guy you divorced five years ago?" is at least a question that could be asked without blowing things up if the answer is "please don't" or even "how could you even suggest that?"

[mommy]

This is good advice.

At the end of the day, it's not the LW's responsibility to "broker peace" in the family. It is Andy's and Allison's shared responsibility to offer apologies and reconciliation and to accept the consequences of their actions, so of course their attempts to delegate is backfiring.

[starfleetbrat]

"my daughter “Cindy’s” husband “Andy” impregnated my other daughter, “Allison.”

Unless there was no consent, then Allison was there for the party and equal blame should be given for the getting pregnant part.

[welcomingsong]

Bingo.

[ayebydan]

*wanders in late with a glass of wine*


I feel for the children. And I do feel that they will get treated different and it won't be their fault and it will still hurt. The hurt will embed itself long before they can understand why Aunt Cindy's kids get to see Grandma on Christmas Day and they have to wait until the 26th. They Aunt Cindy's kids get to stay with grandma on their birthday but they can't even though they are older and it is the same day and they used to but since little Timmy was born no more.


My dad had an affair and left my mum. His mum treated me different from that moment on. I was now part of that whole embarrassment. She chose to treat me differently from my acceptable cousins. So the grandparent has a choice here and I think Alison is aware of it though going about it the wrong way.

Are you going to take the punishment into the next generation or are you going to be the adult here?