Care & Feeding: "I'll have a baby for that famous person but not you"

[minoanmiss]

Dear Care and Feeding,

I’m a middle-aged divorced mother of elementary school kids. I’m an engineer, and I’m good with systems, but I’m naive when it comes to people—I didn’t realize how bad my marriage was until my couples counselor pulled me aside to talk about how I could safely leave it.

I’ve been dating a long-time friend for a year or two now. I feel like he gets all of me. I keep him away from my kids—they’ve been through enough with the divorce—but lately, he’s occasionally brought up the prospect of us having a baby together. I’ve been very clear: the answer is no. But we were having this extremely hypothetical conversation and I told him that if it were possible, I would have John von Neumann’s baby. He teased me about how I’d have von Neumann’s baby but not his. He also said they weren’t that different, and I said we’d have to agree to disagree about that. I thought that conversation was done, but he keeps teasing me, and I’m not able to tell if he’s actually upset.

I meant what I said, but this is sort of like saying you’d sleep with a celebrity—it’s unlikely to happen, and even more so in this case because he’s been dead for decades! Did I say the wrong thing here? I don’t mind the teasing if it’s in good fun, but I’ve never been great at figuring that kind of thing out.

—Algorithms Make Sense, People Don’t

Dear Algorithms Make Sense,

After googling John von Neumann, you might be alone on that one my dear. But in all seriousness, just ask your partner. Say, “Hey, you’ve joked a lot about this John von Neumann thing. Are you really offended?” See what he says. Maybe he’s mostly kidding but slightly hurt by the fact that any man could compel you to have a child when he can’t. As long as he’s not making a huge issue of it, it’s not a big deal. What’s more important than this joke is determining if children will be a deal breaker for you guys. You should talk about that, and determine if he’s willing to stay in the relationship without you changing your mind. Also, is he willing to forgo children forever, or is it something he’ll put up with until he feels things with you have run their course? Do a check-in about his long-term plans. Maybe you’re not super invested yourself and would be okay with parting ways, but I don’t want you to be surprised if he one day finds that his desire to have a child supersedes his desire to be with you. If he doesn’t already have children of his own—girl, have that talk ASAP.

—Jamilah

Comments

[dine]

if she's been dating dude for more than a year, and still keeping her kids away from him, there may be more issues than whose baby she theoretically may (or may not) carry. divorce is hard on kids, and she doesn't have to make him part of their daily life, but no contact at all seems extreme.

and he needs to get over himself a bit - LW is right, it's just like imagining which famous actor one might sleep with. never gonna happen, not reality-based

[movingfinger]

"[W]e were having this extremely hypothetical conversation" about a very serious subject which he has raised MORE THAN ONCE. He wants to have a child with her.

I think that what her long-time friend heard was "you are not smart enough for me to have a baby with," and I do think that was a really tactless and oddly deflecting thing to say when "no, I don't want another child" is right there and more honest and relevant to the relationship.

LW needs to work on her communication skills. I sympathize with "people are hard" but she is going to blow more relationships up if she cannot learn to listen to what someone is saying, with words, to her, when it does not align with what she wants or doesn't want. It sounds like this man knows her well and he is being clear about his wants, but she doesn't listen.

[topaz_eyes]

I’m an engineer, and I’m good with systems, but I’m naive when it comes to people

I wonder if LW is on the autistic spectrum, possibly undiagnosed.

It sounds like this man knows her well and he is being clear about his wants, but she doesn't listen.

Except LW says he’s occasionally brought up the prospect of us having a baby together. I’ve been very clear: the answer is no. He's not taking that no for an answer.

[femboy]

Why does she need to work on her communication skills when she wrote: "I’ve been very clear: the answer is no." You are correct that "No, I don't want another child" is right there and that is why she said no.

Despite her "no", he is still bringing it up.

Are you sure it is the LW who needs to work on their communication skills?

[movingfinger]

Oh, yes, that too! But I hope she is saying no clearly and not using more jokey language! Sorry, I was just looking at the John von Neumann comment as being typical--mea culpa.

I hope she can raise the subject pro-actively, leading with "I am not going to have another child, with you or anyone, and I want you to stop asking about that," and ask him what he wants to do. The good-friends-already tenor of the relationship may have them both averse to confronting the incompatibilities.

[topaz_eyes]

After googling John von Neumann, you might be alone on that one my dear... Maybe he’s mostly kidding but slightly hurt by the fact that any man could compel you to have a child when he can’t.

Uhm... (For those who don't know, this is John von Neumann.) LW isn't referring to just "any man"; I wonder if BF might be feeling a little put out by LW's comment, or if he thinks LW is comparing him.

LW has already told BF that she does not want more children: lately, he’s occasionally brought up the prospect of us having a baby together. I’ve been very clear: the answer is no. BF needs to respect that no, but the fact he keeps bringing it up via the teasing is concerning and it needs to stop.

[minoanmiss]

I forgot to Google and link and now I cannot stop giggling. The gentleman in question is just slightly dead!

[conuly]

Yeah, so he's stiff, right?

[full_metal_ox]

If I were BF and if LW kept reiterating the joke about wanting von Neumann to sire her child, I’d be seriously tempted to tell her to go invent a time machine.

[mrissa]

LW is not the one reiterating the joke, though, right? BF is?

[full_metal_ox]

BF is the one insisting that he wants a child, even though LW doesn’t; LW is the one reiterating the joke that she’d rather conceive by a scientist who died before their parents were born.

[mrissa]

He teased me about how I’d have von Neumann’s baby but not his. He also said they weren’t that different, and I said we’d have to agree to disagree about that. I thought that conversation was done, but he keeps teasing me,

[full_metal_ox]

I lie corrected, then.

[minoanmiss]

makes steam kettle noises

[azurelunatic]

Well, she certainly wouldn't be picking von Neumann out of a lineup for his looks*! BF could usefully compare himself to Einstein in this scenario.


* no shame implied; my partner is awkward-looking and I am immune to most forms of masc beauty

[minoanmiss]

I just can't get over how dead he is. I was expecting her to at least have picked a live person, unless by picking someone who died when her parents were little she's underscoring how much she does not want to have another baby.

[full_metal_ox]

Is this just me, or does this whole scenario have the air of a rejected Big Bang Theory episode?

[minoanmiss]

*splorfles*

[laurajv]

it absolutely does except i think most of the characters in that show would gladly have john von neumann's baby

[melannen]

In my experience of the kind of people who might say they want Von Neumann's baby, this isn't so much "I would have a baby with this famous person but not you", it's "I want my future progeny to be theoretical and mathematical, not biological". LW it's hard to tell without more context on the "extremely hypothetical" context - it sounds like the conversation might not have originally been about babies - but if that's what you meant, then it might be worth unpacking it to yourself and then to your boyfriend ("BF, when I said that I didn't mean I was lusting to change diapers in 1940s New Jersey, I meant I was more interested in abstract math than in babies. I hope that didn't make you think I would change my mind about having more real babies. It's still a firm no, whether you're a math genius or not.")

That said, if you really would be interested in having a (real) baby with a different (real) guy but not this one, whatever your reasons, you need to work through that with both him and yourself, too.