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Parents I think I dislike very strongly
1. Dear Care and Feeding,
I have a 12-year-old who lives for choir and musical theater. She’s been taking piano lessons for four years and has never really been into it the way she is into singing.
She loves to play the piano, but she hates having to practice. I want her to keep taking piano lessons, because 1) It’s such a good companion to the choir stuff (if she decides to do music for a living, she’ll have a head start with already knowing piano and being able to read music—something they don’t study in her choir) 2) we have asked both our kids to pick and stick with a musical instrument and an organized sport or physical activity, and she has no interest in another instrument (or a sport for what it’s worth); 3) we believe strongly in the benefits of musicianship and of needing to practice and work at something. It also bothers me that her main argument for quitting piano is that her teacher makes her keep her fingernails shorter than she’d like them to be. I’m sure there are other reasons, but she’s a tween and that’s all she’s said out loud. In pretty much every other extracurricular, we’ve let the kids choose whether to participate and how much. Am I making my kid miserable because I regret quitting piano as a child? Is it reasonable to ask that the kids play music whether they want to or not?
—To Quit or Not to Quit
Dear Quit,
I’m very much in favor of children learning to read music and to play an instrument (and I have a special affection for the piano, and I believe it’s a wonderful first instrument for anyone). But your daughter has four years of lessons behind her, she loves to play the piano, and she knows how to read music. Plus: She “lives for” choir and musical theater, which I assume means she loves to sing and does a lot of it. The voice is an instrument too, you know—don’t forget that. If you want her to practice and work hard at something and you “believe strongly in the benefits of musicianship,” why not offer her voice lessons? Twelve is just about old enough to start them, and I’m betting she would jump at the offer. And that she would willingly practice for those lessons, too. As for a physical activity, have you considered dance? Your kid doesn’t like sports. If she’s into musical theater, I can’t imagine she wouldn’t want to at least try a dance class.
And try is the operative word. I’m not crazy about the “pick one sport/activity and one instrument” directive. While I’m all in favor of both an introduction to music and lots of opportunities for physical activity of different kinds, the whole “pick one” and stick to it business strikes me as tyrannical. She’s 12. She was only 8 when she started piano lessons. No matter what her reasons are for wanting to quit those lessons now (come to think of it, the same age I was when I quit, and I started before I was 6—and around the same age my kid was when she quit—and both she and I can read music very well to this day), if she’s not enjoying piano lessons, the only result of forcing her to continue them will be to make her hate the piano. Don’t do that. Build some flexibility into all this—and do not let your adult-sized regret about quitting piano as a kid rule you when it comes to your own child. What’s wrong with trying something and finding out it’s not a good fit, then trying something else? Or maybe choir and musical theater are plenty for her right now. As long as she’s moving her body (on the playground, on a trampoline, whatever), if she’s singing and doing theater and going to school every day, she is plenty busy.
There are lots of things one can practice and get better at, and I hate to break it to you, but not everyone is into competition (I’ve always hated any kind of competition). Follow your kid’s lead. And by the way, it’s premature to worry about whether she may decide to “do music” as a career. If she does, there’s plenty of time for her to brush off those piano skills she acquired at an early age. They’re not going anywhere, especially if you don’t cause her to turn her back on an instrument she loves to play.
—Michelle
Link 1
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2. Dear Care and Feeding,
We have an 8-year-old daughter, “Jess,” who does a lot of extracurricular activities. She loves what she does, tries hard, and is relatively successful at them (she represented her school for athletics, she plays the piano well, she’s at the top of her class academically, and she has won a couple of local dance competitions). We have always encouraged her to try different things and will support her as long as she puts in lots of effort (never a problem). Jess has a close friend at school, “Mia,” who has quite a few overlapping activities. Mia’s parents’ motivations are quite different from ours.
They are highly competitive and have openly said that they are pushing Mia into all of these activities to get scholarships. Mia has an elaborate schedule for study, sport, and practice of instruments. There is a strong emphasis on coming in first in everything, and unfortunately, since our daughters share so many activities, Jess seems to have become a benchmark for Mia. When we socialize with the parents, they are incredibly supportive of Jess, always mentioning how well she performed and complimenting her work ethic, etc. It does come across as a little disingenuous, and they seem to be fishing for “tricks”—how we get Jess to study and train—but at least it is positive feedback in front of Jess. Unfortunately, Mia doesn’t have much of a social filter yet, and the messages she must be getting at home have turned her into the very definition of a bad sport. When Mia wins something, she will go on and on about how she is much better than Jess at whatever they were doing. When Jess wins something, she gets a breakdown analysis about why Mia “actually won” or “should have won” and Mia makes it clear Jess wasn’t really deserving of the win. This often comes with a blow-by-blow account about how their family had gone over video footage to determine that Mia was actually better. This has escalated in the last six months, and now we’re at the point that, after competitions that Mia has not even entered, she will provide commentary about how Jess did not deserve to win. To top it off, she has started to exclude Jess from social groups, and she has begun bullying Jess when she does well at something at school.
Jess would be happy to cut ties with Mia, although she is concerned about the social implications at school. She has voiced her sadness about how her friend does not support her and seems jealous all the time. What I want to know is this: Do we leave it at that? Helping her/supporting her in distancing herself from Mia, acknowledging that this is a toxic friendship, and moving on? Or should we talk to Mia’s parents about her behavior? If I were them, I would be horrified by what my daughter was saying and doing. She is certainly revealing a lot more than is probably intended from family discussions. I’d love to let them know exactly what Mia has been saying, and I wonder if we could mitigate the behavior with a little bit of parental intervention. I would hope that maybe we could at least limit the extent to which Mia excludes Jess at school. So should I say something? If so, what? I have no idea how to tell them that I know about all the negative things they have been saying behind our backs.
—Not That Competitive
Dear Not That,
I do not believe that talking to Mia’s parents about her behavior will be helpful to your daughter in any way. And that’s the prize you need to keep your eyes on. There is absolutely no reason to tell them you know about what they’re saying when you’re not in earshot, unless your goal is to try to embarrass them (why bother?) or make Mia’s life even more difficult than it is right now—because I imagine they would scold her for repeating what she’s heard at home, rather than repenting, apologizing, and taking it back. Support your daughter in every way you can. That’s your only role here.
Link two
I have a 12-year-old who lives for choir and musical theater. She’s been taking piano lessons for four years and has never really been into it the way she is into singing.
She loves to play the piano, but she hates having to practice. I want her to keep taking piano lessons, because 1) It’s such a good companion to the choir stuff (if she decides to do music for a living, she’ll have a head start with already knowing piano and being able to read music—something they don’t study in her choir) 2) we have asked both our kids to pick and stick with a musical instrument and an organized sport or physical activity, and she has no interest in another instrument (or a sport for what it’s worth); 3) we believe strongly in the benefits of musicianship and of needing to practice and work at something. It also bothers me that her main argument for quitting piano is that her teacher makes her keep her fingernails shorter than she’d like them to be. I’m sure there are other reasons, but she’s a tween and that’s all she’s said out loud. In pretty much every other extracurricular, we’ve let the kids choose whether to participate and how much. Am I making my kid miserable because I regret quitting piano as a child? Is it reasonable to ask that the kids play music whether they want to or not?
—To Quit or Not to Quit
Dear Quit,
I’m very much in favor of children learning to read music and to play an instrument (and I have a special affection for the piano, and I believe it’s a wonderful first instrument for anyone). But your daughter has four years of lessons behind her, she loves to play the piano, and she knows how to read music. Plus: She “lives for” choir and musical theater, which I assume means she loves to sing and does a lot of it. The voice is an instrument too, you know—don’t forget that. If you want her to practice and work hard at something and you “believe strongly in the benefits of musicianship,” why not offer her voice lessons? Twelve is just about old enough to start them, and I’m betting she would jump at the offer. And that she would willingly practice for those lessons, too. As for a physical activity, have you considered dance? Your kid doesn’t like sports. If she’s into musical theater, I can’t imagine she wouldn’t want to at least try a dance class.
And try is the operative word. I’m not crazy about the “pick one sport/activity and one instrument” directive. While I’m all in favor of both an introduction to music and lots of opportunities for physical activity of different kinds, the whole “pick one” and stick to it business strikes me as tyrannical. She’s 12. She was only 8 when she started piano lessons. No matter what her reasons are for wanting to quit those lessons now (come to think of it, the same age I was when I quit, and I started before I was 6—and around the same age my kid was when she quit—and both she and I can read music very well to this day), if she’s not enjoying piano lessons, the only result of forcing her to continue them will be to make her hate the piano. Don’t do that. Build some flexibility into all this—and do not let your adult-sized regret about quitting piano as a kid rule you when it comes to your own child. What’s wrong with trying something and finding out it’s not a good fit, then trying something else? Or maybe choir and musical theater are plenty for her right now. As long as she’s moving her body (on the playground, on a trampoline, whatever), if she’s singing and doing theater and going to school every day, she is plenty busy.
There are lots of things one can practice and get better at, and I hate to break it to you, but not everyone is into competition (I’ve always hated any kind of competition). Follow your kid’s lead. And by the way, it’s premature to worry about whether she may decide to “do music” as a career. If she does, there’s plenty of time for her to brush off those piano skills she acquired at an early age. They’re not going anywhere, especially if you don’t cause her to turn her back on an instrument she loves to play.
—Michelle
Link 1
2. Dear Care and Feeding,
We have an 8-year-old daughter, “Jess,” who does a lot of extracurricular activities. She loves what she does, tries hard, and is relatively successful at them (she represented her school for athletics, she plays the piano well, she’s at the top of her class academically, and she has won a couple of local dance competitions). We have always encouraged her to try different things and will support her as long as she puts in lots of effort (never a problem). Jess has a close friend at school, “Mia,” who has quite a few overlapping activities. Mia’s parents’ motivations are quite different from ours.
They are highly competitive and have openly said that they are pushing Mia into all of these activities to get scholarships. Mia has an elaborate schedule for study, sport, and practice of instruments. There is a strong emphasis on coming in first in everything, and unfortunately, since our daughters share so many activities, Jess seems to have become a benchmark for Mia. When we socialize with the parents, they are incredibly supportive of Jess, always mentioning how well she performed and complimenting her work ethic, etc. It does come across as a little disingenuous, and they seem to be fishing for “tricks”—how we get Jess to study and train—but at least it is positive feedback in front of Jess. Unfortunately, Mia doesn’t have much of a social filter yet, and the messages she must be getting at home have turned her into the very definition of a bad sport. When Mia wins something, she will go on and on about how she is much better than Jess at whatever they were doing. When Jess wins something, she gets a breakdown analysis about why Mia “actually won” or “should have won” and Mia makes it clear Jess wasn’t really deserving of the win. This often comes with a blow-by-blow account about how their family had gone over video footage to determine that Mia was actually better. This has escalated in the last six months, and now we’re at the point that, after competitions that Mia has not even entered, she will provide commentary about how Jess did not deserve to win. To top it off, she has started to exclude Jess from social groups, and she has begun bullying Jess when she does well at something at school.
Jess would be happy to cut ties with Mia, although she is concerned about the social implications at school. She has voiced her sadness about how her friend does not support her and seems jealous all the time. What I want to know is this: Do we leave it at that? Helping her/supporting her in distancing herself from Mia, acknowledging that this is a toxic friendship, and moving on? Or should we talk to Mia’s parents about her behavior? If I were them, I would be horrified by what my daughter was saying and doing. She is certainly revealing a lot more than is probably intended from family discussions. I’d love to let them know exactly what Mia has been saying, and I wonder if we could mitigate the behavior with a little bit of parental intervention. I would hope that maybe we could at least limit the extent to which Mia excludes Jess at school. So should I say something? If so, what? I have no idea how to tell them that I know about all the negative things they have been saying behind our backs.
—Not That Competitive
Dear Not That,
I do not believe that talking to Mia’s parents about her behavior will be helpful to your daughter in any way. And that’s the prize you need to keep your eyes on. There is absolutely no reason to tell them you know about what they’re saying when you’re not in earshot, unless your goal is to try to embarrass them (why bother?) or make Mia’s life even more difficult than it is right now—because I imagine they would scold her for repeating what she’s heard at home, rather than repenting, apologizing, and taking it back. Support your daughter in every way you can. That’s your only role here.
Link two
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2. Poor Mia! Somebody needs to hit those parents with a strong dose of the clue-by-four.
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I certainly feel like I spent my last year of lessons learning nothing except how much I hated rote-memorizing long but obscure classical pieces in order to perform them once. If I'd had a teacher who was either willing to teach other ways, or better able to explain why what I was doing was important as a foundation for other things, I might have stuck with it. I don't regret not memorizing more sonatas but I do wish I'd had a chance to learn things like chord theory and playing by ear and how to play in different styles for different genres and principles of fingering and how to accompany, or even what a sonata is, all things that would have served me better in adulthood than memorizing and immediately forgetting an uninteresting recital piece.
I'd check in with the teacher about what her aims are for older intermediate/advanced students and see if you can get that aligned better with your kid's interests and aims. And yes maybe look for voice lessons instead, or even a piano teacher who can focus on something like accompanying voice rather than classical recital or whatever it is she hates practicing.
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(Mia is probably going to burn out spectacularly well before the scholarship age, no?)
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If that's the case, Mia may not actually be getting "our little darling is perfect and actually should have won" at home. Mia may be getting, instead, a triple-sided harangue: the judges are terrible and missed all these things (good on Mia's side, bad on Jess's side), Jess is not as good as she clearly thinks she is and if she's willing to be that self-centered in public clearly her parents are not doing their private duty in pointing out all her obvious little flaws, topped off with a constant, detailed accounting of all Mia's many faults without any good points. It comes from a place of love, but it is so, so, so toxic. (My own daughter's birth mother has something of this style of parenting.)
Mia's parents have actually opened the door to Jess's parents for a gentle critique of their methods. Jess's parents could say "You asked about the way we get Jess to practice -- we find that telling Jess about the things she did well, and telling her we are unconditionally proud of her, makes her more willing to work on the things where she needs improvement." And maybe suggest to Jess that Mia's bullying could be a sign of problems at home, and it says more about Mia's anger and resentment than it does about Jess. Which sometimes makes it easier to be gracious and kind to someone who's acting like a jackass.
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Am I making my kid miserable because I regret quitting piano as a child? Yes LW is, so they need to stop trying to live through their child. LW's daughter has learned the music fundamentals that piano teaches which will serve her well. Plus she has bona fide music activities she enjoys--so what if it's not piano? Dance lessons imho would be a great adjunct activity, but LW should get advice on what works best with theatre.
Re LW#2: Jfc Mia's parents are not only trying to live through their child, but their need to see Mia crush everyone will not end well for Mia. Worse, Mia's behaviour has escalated into bullying Jess and that needs to stop. Teaching Jess to stand up for herself is a good idea, but LW should check in with their teacher(s) too.
Also, imho LW should check in with Jess periodically to confirm she is still interested in continuing her activities.
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End the piano lessons, do not sign up Daughter for voice lessons unless she volunteers the idea, and in general let her pick her own level of engagement with music. Also cosigning the idea that it isn't too later for LW to pick up a musical instrument again.
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1 could be my mother when I was 12 except my mother would have asked no one's advice. Furthermore, she's never once praised my singing in my whole goddamn life, and I am not a pro but I do know I can carry a tune without a bucket.
It kind of amazes me how hard some parents try to be resented by their children.
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