agonyaunt | (no subject)

Dear Pay Dirt,

My husband and I are in our mid-40s and in a good year, we average a household income of about $800,000. We’ve climbed up to the tops of our fields and are making great salaries that followed suit. We have two kids (both still in elementary school). We live in an expensive city and own our (small) home. We go on nice vacations at least twice a year if not more, and can afford to send our kids to school, put them in various extracurriculars after school, babysitters, etc. We’re very well off! I know this, of course, logically. But why doesn’t it feel that way? It constantly feels like we’re trying to keep up with the other families that run in our circles and keep up appearances. We spend probably way too much on said vacations, eating out or smaller luxuries like Uber Eats, and the like. I’m constantly worrying about the next career move that I might need to make in order to get that next raise. How do I break out of this mindset? Do we need a budget just to prove to myself that we are in fact doing just fine and don’t need to worry about the next thing? Seriously, how does one make peace with this?

—Money Should Buy Peace!

Dear Money Should Buy Peace,

It’s hard to get off the hamster wheel when you’re going so fast. Part of what might be making you anxious is the idea that if you stop working so hard—to keep up appearances, to hit the next milestone —you’ll lose everything. Of course, this is an irrational fear because it sounds like you’ve got a big, healthy nest egg. But our emotions about money don’t always follow logic or reason.

A financial therapist can help you work through some of those anxieties and worries you describe. The financial psychologist Brad Klontz, for instance, talks about the four money “scripts” that complicate our relationship and behavior with our finances. It sounds like you might follow a “money status“ script. That is, you believe that having the best stuff, or the best job, is indicative of your self-worth as a person. The “money worship” script also seems pertinent here. Klontz writes, “Money Worshipers believe that money is the key to happiness. They feel that the solution to their problems is to have more money. At the same time, they believe that one can never have enough money. They find that the pursuit of money never quite satisfies them.” I’m not a psychologist or a therapist, nor do I know your history with money, but everything you describe seems to fit both of these descriptions pretty well.

Start by reading up on those scripts and challenge some of your notions and approaches to your finances. If you can find the time, book even just one session with a therapist who specializes in this sort of thing—it could be a huge boon to your mental health. They’ll give you more specific advice and might suggest some practical things you can try to challenge your notions about money. This might look like volunteering in your community or spending time away from your social circle. After all, what’s the point of having so much money if you still feel so stressed and anxious about earning more of it? You want to get to a place where it’s in the background of your life and you can focus on what really matters.

—Kristin

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I wanted to redact the annual household income and reveal it at the end, like a fun prize at the bottom of the cereal box.

the advice is probably good, but I cannot get past my thoughts that life for me (and most everyone I know) would be improved/simplified if our incomes approached even a fraction of that amount.

I hope LW can find a way to relax and enjoy the fruits of their labours, and to find more peace, even if it means not keeping up with the Joneses

yes, the average wage in Australia is $1200/week, which for 2 people would be 124,800 a year COMBINED (assuming no unpaid holidays)

Edited 2024-06-14 04:20 (UTC)

Even with the conversion factor, that's substantially higher than median household wage here, in one of the highest cost-of-living areas in the US. Yay.

Literally every single one of my problems would be solved if I made $400,000/year (assuming, for the sake of simplicity, that LW and their husband make the same). Even the stuff that's not "fixable" would be 99.999999% better if I had that kind of money to burn.

… at least LW seems aware that they're being ridiculous about this?

If I made 400,000 a year, I would work for five years, have 1.8 million dollars socked away, and quit.

That said "make a budget" probably isn't a terrible idea if they don't have one, which this letter implies they don't, because if they're paying 200000+ a year mortage, 120,000 a year in private school tuition, 50000 a year on nannies, have three or four large car payments, throw out twenty thousand here or there for vacations or sleepaway camp, and are lavishly spending on day-to-day stuff without any tracking, some people really aren't saving much on 800,000 a year. It would give LW peace of mind to know how well they're actually doing.

Their household income is over ten times my household income. Yeah, I think if they can stop thinking they have to keep up with the folks around them, they'll be much happier.

More money, more problems. LW, I can take some of that money off your hands!

That is Some Hamster Wheel, hooboy.

And yeah, they're gonna need therapy/a rethink to get off it. Because if they're at a household income of 800K with no major debt (one presumes since it wasn't mentioned) and they're still anxious? That's a big problem.

"spending time away from your social circle" - yeah, this is one crucial bit: stop hanging out with rich aholes.

I had a big YUP on that one. Like, two things are clear: LW has the kind of income that, as long as she talks to a financial planner first about the kids and college, means both members of this couple could retire right now.* And also LW has massive financial anxiety. But it's also true that this is particular level of anxiety also comes from your social circle's expectations. Note how LW says "can afford to send our kids to school", as if private school is the unmarked norm.

* assuming no weird debt or medical needs etc., which is reasonable, because LW didn't mention any.

Edited 2024-06-14 14:14 (UTC)

I am reminded of Richard Cory.

/me searches for richard cory

/me reads

whoa.

I mean, my first reaction was of course disdain. This woman's household earns more in a month than I do in a year.

But.

We can't know what's going on in her head. For all we know she has idiopathic anxiety issues, or abuse or trauma in her background, or a small but growing brain tumor affecting her emotions. Richard Cory is a lovely poem about how everyone has their own demons, even those we'd think would be demon proof.

Also I am ridiculous.

I had the same English teacher several terms in a row. He was really incompetent and he pulled that one out once per term. Like, pick a new poem, dude! (The one time he did the whole thing ended in tears, mine, so actually maybe not. And it's all on his shoulders too, because he was very incompetent.)

Oh nooooo I am so sorry.