agonyaunt | (no subject)

[I don't agree with MM that the two are the same -- surely the equivalent of "gift reaction/thanks" is "dinner reaction/thanks"?]

Dear Miss Manners: I must admit I’ve never understood etiquette’s requirement to invite people to one’s home after being invited to theirs. When my spouse and I host, we feel that it’s our idea — nobody asked us to make a dinner and invite the group. We enjoy cooking and spending time with everyone.

Is it not improper for hosts to expect that they will be “repaid” with invitations from their guests?

Your statement is akin to the frequently argued one that people should give presents because they really want to, and therefore responses from the recipients are unnecessary. So only selfish people feel the need for positive reactions from those they entertain or send presents.

Evidently, you do not care whether the presents were successful, or if your guests liked you enough to initiate seeing you again. Most of us do. Miss Manners can think of hardly anyone — or even any business — not wishing, if not clamoring, for “likes” and feedback.

However, reciprocating hospitality does not necessarily involve duplicating the original scenario — what you characterize as repayment in kind. People entertain in different ways, and an invitation to a picnic or a bistro would be full reciprocation for a formal dinner.

What is important is what it says: “We were not just looking for a free night out. We enjoyed ourselves and want to see you again.”

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I honestly do not see any equivalence - a kind gesture is a kind gesture, and one says thank you (if you have any sort of manners). a dinner invitation isn't more important picking up someone's favourite candies or a nice sweater, just the money/effort involved may differ. and a gifter's intent should never be to score something in return.

frankly, some guests at dinner may not be able to return the favour; if someone isn't equipped/monetarily or physically able to host in return, does that mean they have to stay home perpetually?

Exactly. Genuine appreciation, thanks, and good grace/good company is a proper response. I’d hate to live in the world of tit-for-tat of, “Well I shelled out on a 4-course dinner and she bought coffee,” between true friends.

I enjoy taking friends out for meals, but rarely (pre-pandemic) hosted a dinner party where I cooked all the food, versus ordering in.

I have friends who love giving lavish dinners with all kinds of homemade food and fancy dishware, and while I enjoy it, and share my genuine appreciation and delight, and try to make sure to do something nice in reciprocation, it’s unlikely that it will be returned exactly in kind.

Insisting that an invitation be reciprocated by an invitation to eat a homemade meal in someone’s home is really shortsighted and exclusionary.

I found that I enjoy time with my friends more if I haven’t used up all of my spoons making a elaborate meal, and then scrubbing the kitchen before they arrive — at that point, I want a nap!

Basically, what is owed is thanks, consideration, and reaching out periodically to initiate invitations of some kind, to show your hosts that you enjoy their company and want to spend time with them.

Definitely! A true friendship/relationship is about equity, not equality. If a person you care about is generous to you, then thank them and be generous in return based on your different circumstances. People often enjoy the feeling of giving and being needed, so a thank you and sharing company is enough if there is nothing else you're able to do, but if you're stingy or treat the relationship as transactional then you are more likely to lose the friend.

frankly, some guests at dinner may not be able to return the favour; if someone isn't equipped/monetarily or physically able to host in return, does that mean they have to stay home perpetually?

No, but you have to reciprocate in *some* fashion. If you can't host guests then you can at least initiate a phone call later on. (And I think most people do understand the difference between "Auntie Abigail has numerous obligations and also disabilities and cannot easily invite people to things" and "Jack from college would rather hang out with everybody else in the world but me, unless I'm paying".)

Huh, I never knew this expectation was a thing. I invite people over because I like spending time with them, and them choosing to come to my place to spend time with me (rather than declining my invite) automatically makes it a two-way street in return. I don’t need an invite to their place in addition.

It’s similar to how I feel about birthdays. I’d never expect anyone to bring me a present on top of that, because the fact that they’ve chosen to come hang out at my birthday is already their gift to me.

Miss Manners is a bit out of line, IMO. I mean yeah, traditionally, and in theory, reciprocating hospitality is the ideal, but it's not always possible or practical and the point and purpose is demonstrating the recipient wants to continue the relationship. Even in the Jane Austen I've read this week I can think of two examples where invitations were returned with an explanation/excuse for why they couldn't be reciprocated right now.

The whole 'reciprocity in dinner invites' goes back to the days when people has SERVANTS or at least, a bit later on, lived in service apartments, and there were a whole lot of other codes involved, like gender-balancing the table ('we're short a woman, ask the governess to put on her best dress and come down to dine'), and who got to sit next to host/hostess etc.

I.e. realm of Outworn Traditions.

I agree with so many people here that I want my friendships to be marked by general consideration rather than tit-for-tat reciprocity. I brought enough executive function for the whole class. I am super-organized, and my house is always basically clean enough for company. I am comfortable with cooking for a variety of dietary needs and keep separate food prep items to make sure that can be accommodated. Does that mean that I don't value the friendship of anybody who isn't in the same boat? IT SURE DOES NOT. And I would hate to just stop inviting people over because their apartment is only big enough to seat them and their kid, not me--or because they're not comfortable cooking and can't afford takeout--or because they're ashamed of the mess--or a million other reasons.

I'm allergic to cats, and most of my friends have cats. So other people come here WAY more often than I go there. Because in an actual friendship you can open your mouth and talk about what works to make everybody feel comfortable and cared about.

Reciprocity is making both parties feel wanted and appreciated. It is not score-keeping.

I am a bit confused by some of the replies because I think Miss Manners is pretty saying "you don't have to reciprocate in exactly the same way to reciprocate but not reciprocating at all is likely to make someone feel undervalued" but lots of people are saying they disagree with her but say the same thing?

We used to entertain a lot because I love it but there are some people we stopped inviting because they never initiated anything - it didn't matter to me that they didn't invite me over for dinner but it did matter that they never suggested a coffee or a walk or a theatre trip

Edited 2024-01-18 11:46 (UTC)

Yes! I completely agree with you.

I've been thinking about this letter a lot because I just recently ended a friendship and this issue was one of the contributing factors.

There was no reciprocity in the relationship. It was always me inviting this friend over to my house or her inviting herself over to my house. I never expected her to invite me over to hers, but she never invited me to do anything at all--never asked me to go window shopping or for a walk or to lunch or anything. Just waited for me to invite her over or asked me if I was accepting visitors when she came to my part of town. I started to feel like the cruise director of her life, like she considered me responsible for creating social situations for her and responsible for doing all the work. It was very annoying.