Dear Prudence: Help! A Kid Messed With Our Dog Despite Being Warned. Now His Mother Is Threatening U

[minoanmiss]

My girlfriend rescued a small, fluffy, abused dog. We have been working on the training, but one behavior will not go away: the dog hates kids. He will growl and try to hide if one approaches him. Taking him on walks is hazardous because there is apparently an uncountable number of idiot parents who think letting their screaming spawn run up to an unknown dog and stick their hands in its face is fine. Half the time I have to pick up my dog because they will not listen when I say not to approach and my dog isn’t friendly. I actually had a mother argue with me that her kid “knows” when a dog is friendly and implied my dog would be better off put down than out in public. I told her she was better off putting a leash on her own kid.

So, my sister knows all about the situation with our dog. She came over with her new girlfriend … and the girlfriend’s 8-year-old kid. We put the dog in the upstairs bedroom and closed the door. My girlfriend explained that he was a rescue and not good around kids, so no going upstairs. The adults went out on the porch for drinks and the kid was playing on their tablet. The next thing you know, the kid comes out bawling and says the dog attacked him. He went upstairs, into the bedroom, and tried to drag our dog from under the bed.

Once we made sure the kid hadn’t been bitten, the fur flew. My sister’s girlfriend started to rant and rave about our “dangerous” dog and threatened to report our dog to the authorities. My girlfriend lost her cool. She told my sister’s girlfriend that she was a “moron” and a “bad mom” considering her kid refuses to follow basic instructions and thinks going through a private area is okay. At that point, I told my sister it would be better if they leave. My sister is furious with my girlfriend and demands an apology or she is skipping Christmas. This has my parents very upset. The thing is, I think the girlfriend owes my girlfriend an apology. We explained the situation and put our dog in our bedroom. The fact her son thought it was alright to wander throughout home and stress out our dog—that is on his mom.

— Dogsbody

Dear Dogsbody,

A couple of rules to live by: Don’t tell people to put their children on leashes and don’t call those children “human spawn.” Don’t call anyone a bad mom or an “idiot parent.” These things make it kind of hard for you to claim the moral high ground. And don’t spend too much time worrying about whether a person who’s mad at you owes you an apology. I mean, what’s the point if you know the person doesn’t mean it?

That said, you and your girlfriend were right when it came to how you handled the dog, and your sister’s girlfriend made a bad choice when she left her son alone in the house, presumably knowing about his capacity to follow instructions. Sure, from a legal and trying-to-avoid-having-your-pet-taken-by-the-authorities perspective, you would have been smarter to refuse to allow a child to be unsupervised with access to an aggressive animal. But you didn’t do anything that justifies your sister’s anger.

She can skip Christmas if she wants, although I think she’s bluffing and will actually be there. You and your girlfriend don’t have to do anything at this point—except hire a really, really good dog trainer.

Comments

Discussion of letter

[minoanmiss]

https://slate.com/human-interest/2022/12/dear-prudence-uncensored-letter-dogsbody.html

Jenée Desmond-Harris: I was thinking about this in combination with the heated twitter debate this week about whether parents should be able to play videos out loud for their kids on flights, and I have to say I’m just really, really surprised a civil war hasn’t broken out in this country between parents and non-parents. I mean, the contempt for children in this letter!

Joel Anderson: It’s true. And we can both admit this is part of the reason we’ve been dreading taking our sometimes “screaming spawn” onto a plane for any reason whatsoever. Maybe I was ignorant of it before, but I really didn’t understand the intensity of resentment that some people have for children. That said, to be at least a little self-aware, I also know that many parents sometimes can be so entitled and inconsiderate in a public space that it likely rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

But for just a second, I want to linger on the way this LW seemingly talks to people. “Screaming spawn.” Putting a leash on another person’s child. Being cool with your girlfriend running up on the sister’s girlfriend in an aggressive manner after their child did something very child-like. I’m not saying that the LW is out looking for fights every day.
I will say that, you know, maybe LW should think about the way they and their partner talk to other folks.

Jenée: Right, we are both a little extra self-conscious and dread causing a disturbance, so as a result our child will probably experience air travel for the first time at 15 and won’t spend much time at adult gatherings at other people’s homes until he can be fully engaged by a chapter book and reliably follow instructions. Oh well.

Anyway, they are chaotic people. And I’m not saying that’s WHY the dog is the way it is, but its behavior kinda matches their personalities.

Joel: Lol. So the dog is an asshole because they’re assholes, eh? But seriously: Obviously they care about their very surly pet very much.

I will say this: Did they ever consider not having guests over to their home? Perhaps guests don’t quite understand how hard it is to manage their dog. And given that, especially when children are part of the equation here, maybe they should discourage guests and meet their family and friends somewhere there’s absolutely no chance for interaction with the dog. The LW said the sister understood the situation but … obviously they didn’t. Because if someone told me, “Hey our dog is an asshole who hates children,” I probably would want to keep my kid or kids away.

Jenée: Right, it was clear from the first line that they were not taking a lot of responsibility for the dog. “Taking him on walks is hazardous because there is apparently an uncountable number of idiot parents …” Ummm, no, taking him on walks is hazardous because he is a dangerous wild animal!

Anyway, I still think the sister’s girlfriend was in the wrong when it came to putting her child in danger after being thoroughly warned and then blaming the dog owners for what happened. But LW and GF are no angels.

Joel: Absolutely. At this point, I think your original advice is the right one: There’s not much for them to do if they’re not willing to apologize. They’ll just have to find out if the LW’s sister is bluffing or not.

But maybe there’s a way to mend this: Apologize for being so aggressive and insulting in their approach to the sister’s girlfriend, and say that they understand that it must have been a frightening experience for the sister and her child. Be open to the idea that they need to visit a dog trainer. And remind the sister that if they were to come over again, maybe the girlfriend’s child shouldn’t be left unattended and they can volunteer to watch him in shifts while they socialize.

Seems like it’s all too far gone right now, especially since the sister’s girlfriend already has CPS on hold. But this situation doesn’t have to be this bitterly contested. That said: it doesn’t sound like they’d have a great holiday gathering anyway.

Jenée: Not at all.

In which I have opinions

[minoanmiss]

1) I often wonder about that civil war myself. I read Ask a Manager and there are always people complaining bitterly, sometimes misogynistically, about coworkers with kids. Breast milk is a filthy substance which should not be pumped and stored in the office, parents should be docked pay since they are obviously not working as hard as non-parents, and so on. It's pretty scary. LW clearly despises parents and children. I wouldn't be friends with him.

That Said.

2) Jenae, this dog is not "a dangerous wild animal" it's an abuse survivor which LW and his GF are trying to give a safe loving home to recover from being ABUSED. This is a good and caring thing they are doing! And LW was quite clear to his sister's GF about what was going on with the dog. I think eight years old is old enough to know not to go into a room with a CLOSED DOOR in SOMEONE ELSE's HOUSE, and to know not to be rough with another living thing such as dragging it from its hiding place.

I do think Sister's GF owes LW an apology for her son disturbing the dog, and I hope she told her son what he did wrong and not to do it again. I tend to be pretty hard on dog owners because a not insignificant proportion of them really don't care if their pets hurt someone, or more than don't care, but LW and his GF clearly don't fall into that category, for which I commend them. And a significant proportion of people really do act the fool around pets, especially smaller ones, and Sister's GF and her kid DO fall into that category.

All in all I hope the dog recovers and is happy, and Christmas sucks anyways.

[lethe1]

Disclaimer: I don't have children, I knew from an early age I never wanted children, and my patience for screaming children running rampant is very limited (that said, I would never hurt a child).

From the letter, I didn't get the impression that LW called children "screaming spawn" and parents "idiot parents" to their faces. It's just how LW feels about them when s/he is annoyed (as would I).

I actually thought "you should put your own kid on a leash" was the perfect retort to someone who suggested the dog should be put down (provided that the dog itself was on a leash).

I do agree with Prudence's suggestion to hire a good dog trainer. The poor dog shouldn't be living in fear.

[fox]

Okay wow. I do have a young kid, and I am not particularly a dog person, and if my kid went upstairs and into a host's bedroom (after explicitly being told not to) and tried to drag a dog out from under a bed (after explicitly being told the dog was not good around kids), then . . . yeah, that would be my kid's fault? And I suppose by extension mine as well, but this is an eight-year-old child, who by now should theoretically have the brain power and impulse control to be making his own decisions about whether to follow rules or not. (And if you know your kid lacks that level of impulse control, then sure, it's your fault if you leave him where he can cause trouble instead of requiring him to come out to the porch with the adults and play on the iPad there.)

The one thing I might have done differently is close and lock the bedroom door to keep the dog isolated. "Screaming spawn" and "leash your kids" attitude aside, holy crap, the dog doesn't hate kids, the dog is afraid of kids, and that's what LW should tell people rather than "the dog isn't friendly." Jesus. (Then you'll get parents telling you it's okay, their kids are really friendly and gentle, though. Oy.)

[jadelennox]

Dear LW:

All four of you are extremely unpleasant people. You will be happier if you never interact with anyone who has a life unlike yours. Maybe your parents should ban you all from Christmas and go to a resort.

Also, your dog won't stop hating kids because you won't stop hating kids, and since you actually do seem to care about the dog, you should find some training that actually focuses on you and the way you convey your feelings to your dog. A dog that attacks kids, even if thoroughly and unfairly provoked, is a dog that might be put down will ye nil ye, and you have to get over your own distaste for the dog's sake.

[julian]

"Don’t tell people to put their children on leashes and don’t call those children “human spawn.”"

WellActually, Pru, she called them "screaming spawn," which is different.

But anyway.

All four parties involved owe each other apologies.

The home-and-dog-owners ONLY owe apologies for blowing up and being jerks after the event itself, but if they want to be reasonable adults, they should apologize for that part.

The kid and the sister's girlfriend have the actual responsibility for Doing A Wrong Thing, ie, going into a private area of the home where they had been told not to go and then messing with the dog. *Both* of them should apologize.

I don't care who skips Christmas. Have some coal.

[katiedid717]

If this was AITA on Reddit, I'd be giving this an "everyone sucks here" rating.

My sister and her family live on the other side of the country. They came over this summer with their daughters, who were 8 months and 2 1/2 years. The toddler looooooves cats, and I have a cat, but my cat is a nasty piece of shit. Before we went into the house, I got down to my niece's level and said "I need to tell you something important, okay? I have a kitty, but she is not a nice kitty and she gets very scared. So if you see her you can wave hello, but we're not going to look for her and we're not going to touch her, okay?" About 45 minutes later the cat snuck down the stairs to creep on us - niecelet got excited, went to go towards the cat, then stopped, waved, and whispered "Hi kitty!" If a toddler can listen and follow a "leave the animal alone" rule, why can't an 8-year-old?

At the same time, this letter writer really does not like children, does he? I'm surprised this letter isn't from a childfree forum.

All of the adults here have handled this poorly. Jesus.

[castiron]

If my kid did that, my reaction would be to apologize to the dog owner for the distress to the dog. And then kid would be getting a lecture on "this is why you were told not to do this", and way less sympathy than they'd normally get for an injury.

[shirou]

I am glad the columnist started with the warning against telling parents to leash their children and calling children "human spawn." I side with the LW here, but I do not like the LW.

As a parent, I would be relieved if somebody took responsibility to control their unpredictable and potentially dangerous dog. LW took the right steps by putting the dog away and giving their visitors a warning. I would make sure my children knew to leave the dog's room alone and would watch my children to guarantee compliance. This incident is on the kid's mother.