Dear Prudence: My brother is making a Bad Decision. How do I stop him?

[minoanmiss]

Actual Title: Help! My Younger Brother’s Fake Engagement Scheme Is a Ticking Time Bomb. Q. Engaged But Not in Love: My younger brother “Matt” has been dating “Anya” for about two years. They recently got engaged. I was in town about a week ago, and Matt and Anya shared a secret with me—they aren’t into each other romantically at all. They both have had really bad luck with dating. They both really want to have kids and they’re getting older and finding it harder to see that as a possibility if they wait (Matt is 34, Anya is a bit younger but still in her 30s). Their plan is to get married, have kids, and live a “normal” life despite not loving each other in that way.

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Matt and Anya lived together for five years when Matt first moved to the city he lives in now, 10 years ago. Usually, there were other roommates, but for a while, it was just the two of them. They know that they can live together comfortably. They recently moved back in together. They spent the past two years pretending to be dating each other while having purely sexual “affairs” with other people.

I think this is such a bad idea for so many reasons, starting with the fact that two years ago they weren’t really that old. When Matt and Anya explained it to me at the moment it seemed like a solid idea because Anya has a very persuasive way of wording things, but as soon as I got to the airport I realized that the whole thing is likely to fall apart. There will eventually be someone with who one of them has sex and whom they will then fall in love with. Part of me wants to sit back and see this whole thing crash and burn, but I don’t want my brother or any future kids to be hurt. Matt told me that I am allowed to tell my wife about this, and my wife seems to think this whole thing is odd but might work since Matt and Anya have lived together for so long. Should I try to talk my brother out of this?

A: Why do they have to get married to have a kid and parent together??? It’s 2022! They can just do that without lying to the world and creating a situation that will be messy and expensive to unravel if it goes wrong. Why not just have the baby? OK, I realize Matt and Anya aren’t here to answer that question. I agree with you that it’s a bad idea. I agree that there’s a good chance that it will crash and burn. But I also think everyone will basically be fine in the end and talking Matt out of it won’t work. So, sit back and join your wife in wishing them the best.

Re: Q. Engaged But Not in Love: This is so far out of being your business or your place to comment, it may as well be on Jupiter. Butt out.

A: Correct but more important: Commenting won’t change anything.

Re: Q. Engaged But Not in Love: It’s worth noting that in many cultures, what Matt and Anya have is the basis for marriage. Compatibility and common goals versus romantic love. The latter can be fleeting, but can also emerge over time.

A: Right. But I think the difference here is that they still plan to have romantic and sexual relationships with other people, and have made this arrangement not because they believe in marriage based on common goals but because they’ve had “bad luck” with the other kind.

Re: Q. Engaged But Not in Love: Matt and Anya can parent and live together without getting married, and depending on the state in which you all live, divorcing can be an absolute nightmare, especially when kids are involved. Even amicable splits become costly and can take literal years because of the hoops your state may require.

As you point out, these two have a lot of potential living in front of them and no one knows if they will find “that one” in the future, throwing their whole arrangement into chaos. Stay perpetually engaged!

A: Exactly!!

Comments

[dine]

I think I read a fic like that once ...

seriously, I think the brother needs to back off and let Matt live his life (with or without Anya) as he chooses.

[conuly]

Even amicable splits become costly and can take literal years because of the hoops your state may require.

Once people share housing OR property OR children, splits can become costly and take literal years - even if you're not legally married.

IIRC, that was one of the arguments for the legalization of same-sex marriage, that it's much harder to split up if you've been entangled for a long time without a marriage certificate.

There will eventually be someone with who one of them has sex and whom they will then fall in love with.

I mean, maybe, maybe not?

Maybe for them, sex is always gonna be divorced from love and/or romance. It's like that with some people. Or maybe they'll find somebody they'll fall in love with and it'll all be one big happy poly family. We can dream.

[jadelennox]

Once people share housing OR property OR children, splits can become costly and take literal years - even if you're not legally married.

Yeah, and honestly, marriage can make a lot of that cleaner. In fact, depending on the state where they live, Matt's parental rights in particular might be better protected if they're married.

[azurelunatic]

My partner had a hell of a time getting split from their awful ex, both in how they looked at it and legally, because they weren't married. Once someone suggested to them that the narrative was similar to a nasty divorce, that helped them think about it more clearly. It still didn't help with the splitup costs or require fewer lawyers.

[jadelennox]

Look, I'm a twentieth century American, and I have romance-based societal norms like most twentieth and twentieth century americans. But ffs that's so context dependent. What does love even mean?

For twenty-five years I've lived with him \ Fought with him, starved with him \ Twenty-five years my bed is his \ If that's not love, what is?

[minoanmiss]

Auuuuuuugh ear worm


*beams at you*

[serafina20]

I don't know how to make a little heart, but I heart the song quote.

[sporky_rat]

Not to mention sometimes you get better insurance for your spouse though proof of legal spousehood.

[ashbet]

Has the advice-giver never heard of companionate marriage??

[lannamichaels]

There is literally nothing wrong with this idea.

[anotherslashfan]

This, exactly this! What else is marriage good for than some legal protection and tax benefits plus a more explicit commitment to taking care of each other and work as a team?

[ioplokon]

Why do they have to get married to have a kid and parent together???
actually marriage simplifies a lot of legal arrangements around custody & provides a clearer set of protections/expectations if they eventually split up + tax benefits + health insurance. Obviously there are pretty massive financial implications of getting married but like... no more so than for anyone else? Not like people In Love have to get married either?

It might also be interesting to look into domestic partnership if it's available in their state (though this typically makes federal taxes a bit of a nightmare + your chances of being audited drastic go up)

[pauraque]

the whole thing is likely to fall apart

Unlike romantic marriages, which always last.

[castiron]

Nothing wrong with companionate marriage! Frankly, Matt and Anya will probably be happier in their marriage down the road than a couple that married for love and then found that they weren't compatible living together, or a couple that assumed romantic and sexual monogamy and then ended up in a sexless and non-romantic relationship and couldn't agree on opening up.

[mommy]

I don't see anything wrong with what Matt and Anya have chosen. They're consenting adults who sorted out what they want out of their marriage.

[neotoma]

As someone who is aromantic, I really want the LW to butt out of his brother's life. It's perfectly fine to marry someone you like, know you can share housing with, and have the shared goal of having and raising children with; having a romantic or even sexual attraction to them is not required.

Marriage will codify their parental rights, their right to inherit a house and other property from each other, and possibly give them a tax break.

[joyeuce]

Seems to me Matt's only bad decision was sharing their reasons with LW.

[frenzy]

I feel like LW is projecting a lot of their own feelings on love and marriage onto their brother. While it probably would, indeed, crash and burn if everything they perceive is correct, I kind of feel like two 30-somethings know what theyre in for. Maybe one or both are demi or ace? maybe they wanna give a middle finger to the traditional nuclear family? Its absolutely OK to have one partner for love and one for companionship if everyone is cool with it.

ETA: also, aromantic people exist and they deserve to be happy too.

[finch]

I genuinely don't know which is worse here, the OP or Prudie. Further proof that the obsession with TRUE LOVE messes up relationships just as much as any other socially-enforced arrangement does.

[ethelmay]

The only red flag I see here is a history of having "bad luck" with dating, depending on what "bad luck" actually means. If it means that they tend to consistently date people who turn out to be awful, they have some shit they need to get together regardless of this potential arrangement. But of course it's entirely possible that "bad luck" just means that none of their previous relationships has turned into anything one would want to be permanent.