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agonyaunt2022-10-12 11:45 am
minoanmiss) wrote in agonyaunt2022-10-12 11:45 am
Entry tags:
Ask a Manager: I Was Hit On At A Conference
Was I too friendly?
My spouse and I are in the same field and usually attend conferences together. Generally we don’t spend that much time together at conferences, touching base a couple of times throughout the day (often mostly via text) and then having dinner and going to the room together, but people know we’re married.
I recently attended a conference without him there. I was speaking at the conference and otherwise would probably not have attended, because while it’s within the same industry, it’s a different sector and I didn’t expect there to be much that I would be interested in, nor did I expect to know very many people there. I was happily wrong on the first part, but right on the second — I only knew about a dozen people there (and consequently, few of the attendees knew my spouse). Which, fine, I’m an extrovert, I’ll get to know new people and it’ll be fine. In an industry full of introverts, being the extrovert at a conference is generally a good thing and I get complimented all the time for my skill in meeting people and then connecting them to other people they should meet. I’ve helped several people find new jobs with a well-placed introduction.
So, I’m walking around at break and I saw a man sitting alone, looking around and looking like he was feeling left out. So I paused to talk to him and ended up chatting a bit. He asked about a part of my work I’m pretty excited about, so I sat down to really talk about it. We talked some more, he complimented an article of clothing, and I said, “Oh, my spouse bought that for me.” Then his friends came and they went for lunch and I moved on to try to find a friend.
A little later, I saw him and now I was the one standing around looking left out, so he invited me to sit with him in the session. So we sit and talk a little about the session, etc. He then says, “Hey, you really chatted me up, wanna go out for drinks and see what happens?” I had mentioned my spouse multiple times at this point so I was really surprised and basically just said, “That’s not what I’m here for, and I’m really focusing on speaking later this week, so I’m just going to be in my room in the evenings” and we left it like that. He later apologized for making it awkward, which I appreciate, but I didn’t know how to respond.
I think he was out of line. My female friends think he was out of line. My male friends (including my spouse) think it was perfectly okay because he took the no with grace and didn’t push back and apologized afterward. But I find myself second-guessing my actions — was I too friendly? Was I too outgoing? Should I stop networking with men? Only network with men if they’re in a group? And how should I have responded to his apology? Should I have educated him about seeing women as colleagues instead of potential sexual partners?
Aggggh, I’m sorry. You not only got hit on in a context where you shouldn’t have, but now you’re stuck in that awful cycle of questioning whether you somehow caused it by being a friendly person.
I can guarantee you that this man is not second-guessing himself and agonizing over whether he misread you or offended you or whether he should stop networking with women. Which is a shame, because frankly he should stop networking with everyone (men and women) until he’s able to stop assessing colleagues as potential sexual partners. But that’s not going to happen.
The thing that especially sucks is that the cycle you’re in right now — the second-guessing and the worry you’re to blame — harms women professionally. You should be able to be warm and friendly and meet new people at conferences without worrying that your perfectly normal demeanor (which could be identical to that of any man there) will invite unwanted advances. You shouldn’t have to curtail the networking you do because of that worry — and giving in to that could limit you professionally. You didn’t do anything wrong, and yet you’re the one questioning whether to take potentially career-harming actions in response.
To be clear: This was all on him, not you. It doesn’t sound like you gave off any signs you were interested in something sexual. You engaged in the completely normal and expected action of networking at a conference; that’s it. You mentioned even your spouse multiple times! This man wasn’t responding to signs from you; to the contrary, he was responding to his own interests, with total disregard for yours.
As a general rule, people shouldn’t hit on colleagues (at work or at professional events) unless they are receiving Very Clear Signs of interest — not just “she is talking to me” (because that is a normal and expected behavior; in fact it is the exact behavior the conference is designed to facilitate) — and if in doubt, should err on the side of not making colleagues feel they’ve been sized up sexually, because that is not what most people are there for, and because women need to be able to exist in professional spaces without worrying that warmth or friendliness will be taken as sexual interest … and, importantly, without needing to worry that rejecting a dude’s overtures could have professional consequences for them. I suspect that your male friends who saw nothing wrong here don’t get this because it’s not something they’ve had to worry about personally.
Moreover, if someone is confident they’ve seen signs of mutual interest and is going to attempt to move the relationship toward the social realm, in a professional context it’s essential to do it respectfully. That means “I’d love to grab dinner if you’re free” or “we have so many interests in common, I’d love to hang out socially after today’s last event if you’d like to” … not “wanna go out for drinks and see what happens” (WTF).
To answer your last question, you’re not responsible for educating this man about appropriate behavior. You can if you want to! If you feel moved to set him straight, you’d be doing the world a favor. But you have zero obligation to take that on if you’d rather not. And as for the right way to respond to his apology, anything you were comfortable with was fine. If you felt like ignoring it, that’s fine. If you wanted to just go with “thanks, I appreciate it,” that’s fine. And if you wanted to say, “Yeah, you were really out of line — women are here to network, not be hit on” or any other variation of that, that would be fine too.
My spouse and I are in the same field and usually attend conferences together. Generally we don’t spend that much time together at conferences, touching base a couple of times throughout the day (often mostly via text) and then having dinner and going to the room together, but people know we’re married.
I recently attended a conference without him there. I was speaking at the conference and otherwise would probably not have attended, because while it’s within the same industry, it’s a different sector and I didn’t expect there to be much that I would be interested in, nor did I expect to know very many people there. I was happily wrong on the first part, but right on the second — I only knew about a dozen people there (and consequently, few of the attendees knew my spouse). Which, fine, I’m an extrovert, I’ll get to know new people and it’ll be fine. In an industry full of introverts, being the extrovert at a conference is generally a good thing and I get complimented all the time for my skill in meeting people and then connecting them to other people they should meet. I’ve helped several people find new jobs with a well-placed introduction.
So, I’m walking around at break and I saw a man sitting alone, looking around and looking like he was feeling left out. So I paused to talk to him and ended up chatting a bit. He asked about a part of my work I’m pretty excited about, so I sat down to really talk about it. We talked some more, he complimented an article of clothing, and I said, “Oh, my spouse bought that for me.” Then his friends came and they went for lunch and I moved on to try to find a friend.
A little later, I saw him and now I was the one standing around looking left out, so he invited me to sit with him in the session. So we sit and talk a little about the session, etc. He then says, “Hey, you really chatted me up, wanna go out for drinks and see what happens?” I had mentioned my spouse multiple times at this point so I was really surprised and basically just said, “That’s not what I’m here for, and I’m really focusing on speaking later this week, so I’m just going to be in my room in the evenings” and we left it like that. He later apologized for making it awkward, which I appreciate, but I didn’t know how to respond.
I think he was out of line. My female friends think he was out of line. My male friends (including my spouse) think it was perfectly okay because he took the no with grace and didn’t push back and apologized afterward. But I find myself second-guessing my actions — was I too friendly? Was I too outgoing? Should I stop networking with men? Only network with men if they’re in a group? And how should I have responded to his apology? Should I have educated him about seeing women as colleagues instead of potential sexual partners?
Aggggh, I’m sorry. You not only got hit on in a context where you shouldn’t have, but now you’re stuck in that awful cycle of questioning whether you somehow caused it by being a friendly person.
I can guarantee you that this man is not second-guessing himself and agonizing over whether he misread you or offended you or whether he should stop networking with women. Which is a shame, because frankly he should stop networking with everyone (men and women) until he’s able to stop assessing colleagues as potential sexual partners. But that’s not going to happen.
The thing that especially sucks is that the cycle you’re in right now — the second-guessing and the worry you’re to blame — harms women professionally. You should be able to be warm and friendly and meet new people at conferences without worrying that your perfectly normal demeanor (which could be identical to that of any man there) will invite unwanted advances. You shouldn’t have to curtail the networking you do because of that worry — and giving in to that could limit you professionally. You didn’t do anything wrong, and yet you’re the one questioning whether to take potentially career-harming actions in response.
To be clear: This was all on him, not you. It doesn’t sound like you gave off any signs you were interested in something sexual. You engaged in the completely normal and expected action of networking at a conference; that’s it. You mentioned even your spouse multiple times! This man wasn’t responding to signs from you; to the contrary, he was responding to his own interests, with total disregard for yours.
As a general rule, people shouldn’t hit on colleagues (at work or at professional events) unless they are receiving Very Clear Signs of interest — not just “she is talking to me” (because that is a normal and expected behavior; in fact it is the exact behavior the conference is designed to facilitate) — and if in doubt, should err on the side of not making colleagues feel they’ve been sized up sexually, because that is not what most people are there for, and because women need to be able to exist in professional spaces without worrying that warmth or friendliness will be taken as sexual interest … and, importantly, without needing to worry that rejecting a dude’s overtures could have professional consequences for them. I suspect that your male friends who saw nothing wrong here don’t get this because it’s not something they’ve had to worry about personally.
Moreover, if someone is confident they’ve seen signs of mutual interest and is going to attempt to move the relationship toward the social realm, in a professional context it’s essential to do it respectfully. That means “I’d love to grab dinner if you’re free” or “we have so many interests in common, I’d love to hang out socially after today’s last event if you’d like to” … not “wanna go out for drinks and see what happens” (WTF).
To answer your last question, you’re not responsible for educating this man about appropriate behavior. You can if you want to! If you feel moved to set him straight, you’d be doing the world a favor. But you have zero obligation to take that on if you’d rather not. And as for the right way to respond to his apology, anything you were comfortable with was fine. If you felt like ignoring it, that’s fine. If you wanted to just go with “thanks, I appreciate it,” that’s fine. And if you wanted to say, “Yeah, you were really out of line — women are here to network, not be hit on” or any other variation of that, that would be fine too.
I need a bingo card
"If you can't ask someone out at work, where can you ask someone out?"
"But some people hook up at conferences"
"But polyamory" (no, just... no)
“He’s a good guy because he wasn’t violent”
" the man’s bluntness was at least honest in that he didn’t invite her out to drinks under any false pretenses."
"Thanks for injecting a little realism and humanity into a discussion which clearly just takes it for granted that any time a woman is asked out and says no the man must be a creep."
"Everyone in these comments is making a mountain out of a molehill... It’s good to remember that AAM, while useful, isn’t always representative of what most people think."
God give all working women
except the quislingsstrength.no subject
I'm reminded of the time a woman well known in the skeptics conferences as a writer and a speaker
had a man approach her in the lift at 4am and invite her to his hotel room.
She wrote a public blog post (not naming the man) about how this made her feel sexually harrassed and unsafe
"I was a single woman, in a foreign country, at 4 a.m., in a hotel elevator with you—just you—and don't invite me back to your hotel room, right after I have finished talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner"
Whereupon men piled on in the comments saying "he could have just wanted to talk"
She pointed out that she had been in the bar chatting with friends for several hours, *and he was in that same bar where he could see her*, and he had never once said a single word to her until she got into the lift.
She received DEATH THREATS and RAPE THREATS from the internet for saying she didn't want to be sexually harassed at a conference
Wikipedia entry here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Watson#%22Elevatorgate%22
"The controversy that came to be known as "Elevatorgate" originated with a video Watson made following the June 2011 World Atheist Convention in Dublin, where Watson spoke on a panel, which also included biologist Richard Dawkins, about her experience of being sexualized within the atheist movement on account of her gender.[4]: 100–101 [21] According to Watson, several members of the panel and audience later gathered for drinks in the hotel bar, which Watson left at around 4 a.m., saying she was going to bed. In a vlog posted following her return from the trip, she described how a man from the group, whom she had not spoken to before, followed her into an elevator and, once inside, asked her to go back to his room for coffee. Watson said this proposition being made in the confined space of an elevator made her "incredibly uncomfortable" and advised, "guys, don't do that".[22]: 198 She went on to say:
I was a single woman, in a foreign country, at 4 a.m., in a hotel elevator with you—just you—and don't invite me back to your hotel room, right after I have finished talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner.[4]: 101 [23]
A negative response by the online atheist community to Watson's account of the elevator incident, which was a brief part of a longer video about other topics,[22]: 198 soon spread across several websites, including Reddit, and became highly polarized and heated.[24][25][further explanation needed] Writer and biologist PZ Myers wrote a post on his blog Pharyngula about the incident, and the debate steadily grew to include the overall status of women within the secular movement, with most of the movements's prominent figures offering their opinion on whether the elevator incident was sexual harassment. Religious scholar Stephen LeDrew writes that this discussion attracted "a continuing vitriolic backlash", with commenters online labeling women who spoke up on the subject as "feminazis" and other misogynistic slurs.[22]: 198–199 Watson experienced death threats,[4]: 101 with commenters on her blog saying in graphic terms how she should be raped and murdered.[22]: 198
The controversy attracted mainstream media attention when Richard Dawkins joined the debate.[22]: 199 Writing in the comments section of Pharyngula, he satirized the supposed indifference of Western feminists to the plight of oppressed Muslim women:[26] "
no subject
oh God I remember that debacle.
Re: I need a bingo card
Re: I need a bingo card
I don't think so, but maybe ... I have seem a couple of really obnoxious people vanish, but I don't know if they got booted or tired of the place. Alison does delete comments and leave reasons why in their place.
Re: I need a bingo card
I tried everything at conferences, I even had a prominent conference ring for a while. Nothing worked, and the shittiest part is that all these dudes started the conversations the same way: as an expression of the kind of professional interest in each other's work that are the purpose of conferences. Each time I thought I was networking, sharing interest and professional tips with colleagues, making connections. And each time it was a fucking play. Wasting time I could be doing actual networking.
no subject
Dudes, I'm going boymode here for you so you listen: DON'T DO THIS. If you feel any inkling of saying "not all men" on this guy, think about it - maybe not all men, but yes, this guy in particular. He did want to get into her pants, and he let her know that, disregarding every social sign that was given that that was not expected or wanted (and I swear to god, if you go all "well he's excused because he's clearly socially awkward" on me, I will rip you a new one). No, he didn't physically assault her, but he did make her question her professional activities, put a chill on the conference, and that, too, is a an injury resulting from sexist behavior. So yes, this man. Very much this man.
no subject
OMG, how has this response been missing from my playbook all this time?
no subject
Also, dude. if you want to hook up at a conference, that's what Tinder's for?
no subject
Yes. If this woman becomes hesitant to talk to other men at conferences, that might cost her professional opportunities - so she has still been *harmed*, even if she wasn't assaulted.
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What about that sinking sensation where you thought someone was responding to your work-related strong points but it turns out he just wanted to date you? (Even if dating you is totally innocent and not insulting at all?)
I mean, how would you feel if you struck up a conversation with me at a conference, had a nice friendly talk, and when I saw you again I assumed you were going to come fix my computer for me? Nothing wrong with fixing computers, it's not insulting to assume you fix computers, I backed right off as soon as you said no thanks, but you thought you were making professional contact and it turned out that I wanted something from you.
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All good luck. Bring a spray bottle?