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agonyaunt2022-09-13 11:19 am
minoanmiss) wrote in agonyaunt2022-09-13 11:19 am
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Dear Prudence: Is There a Non-Sexist Way to Tell My Girlfriend She Should Wear More Makeup?
(n.b. I don't think the title is entirely accurate or fair to the LW)
Q. Can’t makeup my mind: I have a great relationship with my girlfriend, whom I’ve been dating for more than a year. Our communication is open and clear about most topics, except this one small thing. Sometimes I wish she would wear makeup on the special nights we go out, or even once in a while for the fun of it. At the same time I’m extremely reluctant to voice this desire. I know that women are expected to spend way more time and money on their appearance than men are and I don’t want to hurt her feelings or suggest that I don’t like her the way she is. I do—and at the same time I really liked when in previous relationships my partner would put on some makeup now and then. It just was a fun change of pace and it genuinely looks beautiful. I’d like my partner to try out some makeup; I know she has done it in the past but it’s very rare. How do I tactfully suggest that she wear some mascara for our next date night without sounding rude, sexist, or thoughtless? Is that even possible? Or should I just let this go and not say anything?
A: There’s a real difference between “I want you to spend a ton of extra time and money on your appearance regardless of your own feelings on the subject, lest you displease me” and “If you ever want to pick a night where we get really dressed up, I’d love it—I think make-up on a special occasion (or no special occasion) every once in a while looks beautiful,” especially when you’re prepared to take “No” for an answer. You can go a little overboard in planning your own outfit and hairstyle on that same night if she’s up for it, so the proposition isn’t “Have fun drawing the perfect cat’s-eye, I’ll be looking exactly the same as usual.” But don’t “tactfully suggest” she put on some mascara as if she’s forgotten something important, like making sure to put on shoes before she leaves the house. Be straightforward about the fact that this is something superfluous, extravagant, and nonessential that you want that she can either decline or accept, not something she should probably be doing already.
There’s nothing wrong with saying, “I like my beautiful girlfriend and I like the occasional bold lip.” You don’t have to present that as a shameful, sexist secret or evidence that you don’t really appreciate her face as is, so long as you don’t press the issue and take her at her word if she says, “I don’t find putting on makeup fun.” Also, if you’re really into makeup as something casually fun and lovely, why not consider wearing it on your own every once in a while? There are plenty of beginner’s tutorials on YouTube (and all over the internet). You can test-drive various color palettes and styles until you find ones that suit you and best bring out your eyes. Part of the fun of makeup is (or can be, at least) the flexibility and impermanence of the endeavor; you can wipe it off and start again as often as you like, even if “as often as you like” is “pretty much never.”
Q. Re: Can’t makeup my mind: Never, ever, ever tell your partner you want to see her in makeup. You will do nothing but hurt her feelings, make her doubt how attracted to her you are, and make yourself look like an ass.
A: One vote against, and worth considering! I’m not prepared to guarantee that this request will only hurt her feelings or convince her that her partner’s not attracted to her, but it’s also true that no matter how noncommittally the letter writer frames his request, it doesn’t take place in a cultural or social vacuum, and their partner may very well be burned out on other people’s requests and opinions and preferences when it comes to makeup, especially from men they’re dating.
Q. Can’t makeup my mind: I have a great relationship with my girlfriend, whom I’ve been dating for more than a year. Our communication is open and clear about most topics, except this one small thing. Sometimes I wish she would wear makeup on the special nights we go out, or even once in a while for the fun of it. At the same time I’m extremely reluctant to voice this desire. I know that women are expected to spend way more time and money on their appearance than men are and I don’t want to hurt her feelings or suggest that I don’t like her the way she is. I do—and at the same time I really liked when in previous relationships my partner would put on some makeup now and then. It just was a fun change of pace and it genuinely looks beautiful. I’d like my partner to try out some makeup; I know she has done it in the past but it’s very rare. How do I tactfully suggest that she wear some mascara for our next date night without sounding rude, sexist, or thoughtless? Is that even possible? Or should I just let this go and not say anything?
A: There’s a real difference between “I want you to spend a ton of extra time and money on your appearance regardless of your own feelings on the subject, lest you displease me” and “If you ever want to pick a night where we get really dressed up, I’d love it—I think make-up on a special occasion (or no special occasion) every once in a while looks beautiful,” especially when you’re prepared to take “No” for an answer. You can go a little overboard in planning your own outfit and hairstyle on that same night if she’s up for it, so the proposition isn’t “Have fun drawing the perfect cat’s-eye, I’ll be looking exactly the same as usual.” But don’t “tactfully suggest” she put on some mascara as if she’s forgotten something important, like making sure to put on shoes before she leaves the house. Be straightforward about the fact that this is something superfluous, extravagant, and nonessential that you want that she can either decline or accept, not something she should probably be doing already.
There’s nothing wrong with saying, “I like my beautiful girlfriend and I like the occasional bold lip.” You don’t have to present that as a shameful, sexist secret or evidence that you don’t really appreciate her face as is, so long as you don’t press the issue and take her at her word if she says, “I don’t find putting on makeup fun.” Also, if you’re really into makeup as something casually fun and lovely, why not consider wearing it on your own every once in a while? There are plenty of beginner’s tutorials on YouTube (and all over the internet). You can test-drive various color palettes and styles until you find ones that suit you and best bring out your eyes. Part of the fun of makeup is (or can be, at least) the flexibility and impermanence of the endeavor; you can wipe it off and start again as often as you like, even if “as often as you like” is “pretty much never.”
Q. Re: Can’t makeup my mind: Never, ever, ever tell your partner you want to see her in makeup. You will do nothing but hurt her feelings, make her doubt how attracted to her you are, and make yourself look like an ass.
A: One vote against, and worth considering! I’m not prepared to guarantee that this request will only hurt her feelings or convince her that her partner’s not attracted to her, but it’s also true that no matter how noncommittally the letter writer frames his request, it doesn’t take place in a cultural or social vacuum, and their partner may very well be burned out on other people’s requests and opinions and preferences when it comes to makeup, especially from men they’re dating.
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(I think it's important to note btw that 'makeup' is not a magical skill all women have from birth and you should not approach her that way; if she very rarely wears it she may not have confidence in her skill. As an adult I've basically only worn it for weddings and job interviews, and had to ask for help every time.)
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Bringing it up via trying makeup himself does sidestep the issue of him dictating her performance of femininity, but somehow I don't think he's likely to consider it as a real possibility.
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I do think we're being a little unforgiving of him not knowing exactly how she feels about it (or not mentioning it in the letter, that's not the question he's asking, after all, and it doesn't seem to be a big part of her life, if it weren't for his interest it wouldn't be any more important to the relationship than how she feels about model trains). And if you're worried about accidentally giving insult, there really isn't any obvious casual way to find out what she thinks. But bringing it up in a context other than "why don't you wear it" is the starting point. It could also be something like "I want to buy some makeup for /female relative who wears it/ for a gift, do you think that's a good idea?" - express interest in makeup in a context other than the relative attractive of women who wear it, and see where that goes.
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LW has gotten as far as figuring out the issue might be Fraught. Points for that! However, he hasn't gotten as far as realizing that his gf's personal opinions re: makeup are much more relevant to his actual question ("can I ask my girlfriend to wear makeup to please me on our dates?") than any advice columnist's opinion could possibly be.
I guess part of what I was boggling about, re: alienness of worldview, is that bringing up "Makeup: Fun Toy or Patriarchal Scourge?" as an abstract issue to discuss seems perfectly reasonable to me, and much *more* reasonable than cooking up indirect scenarios that might possibly cause her to volunteer some useful information, while carefully avoiding letting her know that there is specific info being sought. That seems like so much work, and so likely to blow up in someone's face!
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I am a female-socialized-and-appearing person but I honestly go years at a time without thinking about makeup as applied to myself, and probably do spend more time on model trains. There definitely is a difference here between "Would you like to help me with my model train setup?" and "Would you change the appearance of your body for me?" - and he's realized that one of them is much more fraught! Her opinion does matter more about the second one. But the only reason it matters is that he's interested in it - if he also didn't care about makeup, why would he bring it up? It wouldn't be his business unless she wanted to talk about it, anymore than exactly what clothes she chooses to wear or whether she dyes her hair.
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But it would definitely be a good idea to offer to buy some as gifts, if she's interested in using it. (Honestly, he clearly has an idea of what kind of makeup he likes, if not necessarily the vocabulary to express it, so the two of them figuring it out together and then going shopping for it as a date is probably a good next step anyway.)
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There is that! LOL. And makeup shopping could be a fun date. Especially if they go shopping for him, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope there.
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(In my experience it's men who have sister vs men who don't)
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QFT. Also, other commenters have addressed the overarching problems with this: why doesn't he freaking talk to her about it like two actual people? Why is he treating all women like a monolith?
So I want to home in on the little tiny piece that sent me from "ugh" to "RAWR": mascara. Even when I was steadily amassing, of my own free will and for purposes that had nothing to do with mating plumage, a collection of bareMinerals eyecolor products sufficient to provide for at least a small drag show, mascara was the one thing I did not use--- in my case, putting that crap on my eyelashes completely obscured all the hard work I had done on the rest of my eyes; there was just this gigantic thing like a black cast-iron fence in front of my eyes. So even when I was using makeup, for the fun of it, that was just about the only thing I didn't use.
And, relatedly, does he know she's not using makeup? I was brought up that the purpose of makeup is to look like you're not wearing any, and even if I did end up exploring other aesthetics as an adult, I don't know how much he knows about the actual routine she does do. And, for that matter, she may have actual health issues that preclude wearing makeup, or makeup she can afford--- as an example, my aforementioned bareMinerals habit started with an attempt to wrangle roasacea and sun-sensitivity into submission, and then I branched out into playing with colors, so the reverse can definitely be the case.
And for that matter, how is he imagining the rest of those makeup-involved date nights playing out? How will he react when she needs to take all that stuff off before post-night-out sexytiems (if any)? Not wanting to break the mood with a necessary skincare routine is still another reason why someone might not want to wear makeup on a night out. (And now I'm imagining one of the old-school sex-symbol movie stars saying something like, "Darling, I don't wear foundation or foundation garments for the same reason--- it's that much easier to get down to business." Snerk.)
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If the issue is actually some kind of sensitivity or medical issues, there would probably be things they could come up with if they got to talking about it in terms of either "I'm interested in makeup" (solution: he wears it) or "I like the idea of use both looking extra special/formal on dates" (solution: alternative ways of looking fancy, specific kinds of makeup that work for he that he buys, she wears a rhinestone masquerade mask the whole time). Bet they need a way to start the conversation first.
(I didn't even think about most of that. But then I don't think I've ever worn mascara in my life. I never had anybody to teach me about makeup and that seemed like the worst choice for trying to learn how to apply by yourself.)
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As a practical thing, I love all your solutions, and the idea of a rhinestone masquerade massk just makes me smile, smile, smile.
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And, okay, you didn't ask for all this in your inbox and maybe this should be a top-level comment, but the guy doesn't seem to have a clue why asking a woman to wear makeup is sexist, and the above part of "do you have any clue what goes into that process" seems likely to be a piece of that.
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(I generally wear nothing or lip balm, if I'm doing any makeup-makeup it's lipstick and maybe concealer, and from there I add eyeliner, eye shadow, eyebrow stuff, sometimes highlighter. Glitter is also on the list but occupies a separate category.)
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Have you tried edible glitter? It dissolves in water for easier cleanup!
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(We do have a Roomba.)
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This! Look, I once said to my partner, "would you ever consider growing a beard from time to time? It's sexy." He tried it for a couple of months, then decided he disliked it, and told me so, and that was the end of it. I asked, he considered, he said no, I accepted that because it's his body and we're normal adults who can have a normal conversation.
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