Miss Manners: Husband's atrocious table manners costing LW business

[cereta]

Dear Miss Manners: My wonderful husband is everything I could want; however, his one flaw is his table manners.

My profession requires me to attend upscale business dinner meetings, and we are asked to join friends for meals as well. Unfortunately, most people we encounter at these events are completely turned off by my husband’s table manners — which also, for some reason, reflect badly on me. We have lost many friends, and I’ve lost business contacts as a result.

I am used to it, but others are not! He likes to eat with his fingers rather than use dining utensils, even greasy foods that get all over his hands and face. If he does use a utensil, it’s a tablespoon to scoop up the food all the faster. He will ask the server for a tablespoon the moment we are seated, even though nothing requiring one is on the menu. He also drinks soup by picking up the bowl and slurping it down, and stares at other people’s plates if they contain food that he enjoys, waiting for them to put down their spoon for a moment and then asking if he can finish the food on their plate.
At one business dinner in a very upscale hotel dining room, we were seated eight to a round table. Desserts were placed before each diner, and after “inhaling’’ his chocolate cake, he went around to everyone at the table asking if he could have their cake if they weren’t planning to eat it! Most of the diners at the table intended to enjoy their dessert, but at a normal, leisurely pace — which he assumes means they don’t care for the food placed before them.

The shock on their faces showed that they didn’t know how to respond, and most inched their dessert toward him. He happily sat at the table with six other desserts in front of him, tackling one after the other, while everyone looked on in disgust. Then he excused himself from the table, announcing he had to “go wash up’’ since the grease of the steak dinner was all over his hands and face.

Needless to say, I lost all further contact with any of my associates who dined at that table with us. Gently suggesting change does not work! Neither do dirty looks or reprimanding statements. Any suggestions?

Your husband's behavior reflects badly on you because . . . he is your husband. The sole reason for his inclusion at business functions is in that capacity. But even in social situations, you cannot expect to avoid some measure of censure.

His behavior is abhorrent, but you are the one most able to take corrective action. You — or rather, he — therefore have two choices: Reform his manners or cease to include him. This will be easier in your business life than your personal life, since you can tell your husband you have to avoid further damage to your career — “business people are so unforgiving’’ — and you can tell your business partners that your husband was unavailable.

Comments

OH MY *GOD*

[cereta]

Why is this man attending your business dinners when he is actively costing you business? Forget what is wrong with him: WTF is wrong with you?

But it's worse than that.

1. There is NO WAY he doesn't know he's being gross and rude. Absolutely no way. He knows it; you have reinforced, albeit not strongly enough, and he continues to do it, even when he knows it is costing you business, and thus the two of you money. Which raises a question:

2. Why? I don't believe for a minute that he's incapable of using standard silverware, or, you know, not demanding other people's dessert. Look, here's me, right this moment, not demanding other people's desserts. So why does he continue to do it? Is he threatened by your success, and trying to undermine you? Is he asserting power in the relationship by showing that he will act like a baboon with bad manners in the most embarrassing settings? Because I cannot think of a good or even neutral reason for him to keep doing this. Hell, even if he for some reason cannot stop, he can stay home. Which brings me to:

3. And yet you continue to bring him, seemingly of your own volition. Of course it reflects on you! And while I won't say that's not gendered - of course it is - I'd be pretty annoyed if anyone brought such a stomach-turner to dinner.

Speaking of gendered, can anyone see a woman feeling free to behave like this in her own home when no one is there, let alone out with spouse's clients.

(I know LW is not specifically identified as a woman, but I sure get that vibe.)

This is beyond "just leave him at home." This is, quite possibly, "just leave him."

Re: OH MY *GOD*

[beable]

2. Why? I don't believe for a minute that he's incapable of using standard silverware, or, you know, not demanding other people's dessert. Look, here's me, right this moment, not demanding other people's desserts. So why does he continue to do it? Is he threatened by your success, and trying to undermine you? Is he asserting power in the relationship by showing that he will act like a baboon with bad manners in the most embarrassing settings? Because I cannot think of a good

Yeah, seriously. There's "I dont know which fork to use or whether this specific fiddly food is _actually_ finger food or why I have 7 different spoons" manners which yeah, I mostly know from watching Downtown Abbey, and there's "I am being actively gross" manners and I agree that he is probably embracing the power trip of being uncouth to the point of grossness on purpose.

Re: OH MY *GOD*

[petrea_mitchell]

I dunno, looking for every mechanical advantage to cram down the food faster, eating seven desserts all at once, and then the hasty bathroom break right afterward says "eating disorder" more than "power trip" to me.

(Though, no reason it can't be both tangled up together! And it certainly doesn't change the advice to LW: stop bringing him, and think about whether this is a part of a broader issue.)

Re: OH MY *GOD*

[melannen]

Yeah, this is either deliberate sabotage (but it sounds like he might do this when they're alone too?), a made-up letter, or some kind of eating-related. Like, someone who doesn't have disordered eating on *some* level isn't going to *want* an entire dinner and seven slices of cake? If it's real it almost reads like descriptions I've read of things like Prader-Willi Syndrome where people truly can't exercise self-control around food.

Re: OH MY *GOD*

[cereta]

I had thought about that as soon as I posted, and if so, I would sympathize with him, do sympathize with him up to the point that he keeps going to these dinners knowing this will happen. He could be in some kind of deep, deep denial, which is reason, oh, seven that LW needs to have a come to Jesus talk with him (or perhaps with themselves). I get that addiction is messy and chaotic and multi-faceted, and food addictions are even moreso, because unlike nearly every other addition, you can't just go cold turkey. And maybe I'm missing a key component. But there's a solution just dangling right there, and one or both of them needs to see it.

Re: OH MY *GOD*

[purlewe]

WHY? whywhywhywhy? (yeah my brain is stuck. WHY o WHY?)

OK maaaaybe he has a food thing or even a sensitivity to metal in his mouth (which I doubt due to say.. the teaspoon) but if She knows this and HE knows this then t=he should not be going and in fact should bow out or be asked to bow out.

WHY??????? yup still stuck.

[movingfinger]

Whenever people open with "wonderful husband is everything I could want," they actually mean "terrible husband who is actively, deliberately terrible."

[cimorene]

Okay but - how did she marry this guy without ever having sat down to eat at a table with him before?!

Or is all of this a complete non-issue to her if it's not costing business contacts?

If the latter, THAT's what is reflecting poorly on you in your colleagues' minds: your taste and judgment.

[petrea_mitchell]

It's possible this is something that's developed slowly since they were married.

[cimorene]

It seems so extreme that - okay, even if it was gradual, unless they've been married for A REALLY LONG TIME, the seeds must've been there, you know? But point taken. That's not impossible.

[oursin]

There are a lot of proverbs along the lines of 'lie down with dogs, get up with fleas' - 'ye can tell a man who boozes by the company he chooses - at that the pig got up and walked away' - of course he reflects badly on her. The way she writes about him shows she knows this is entirely disgusting and would not be acceptable in a 7 year old.

I suppose I have a certain sordid curiosity about how he dresses for these occasions, as well.

I would say 'everything she wants' appears to be a poorly socialised baboon, but I fear I may be doing baboons a severe injustice.

[laurajv]

I say this as someone who has been struggling, mostly in vain, for years to teach my older child acceptable table manners: what the actual fuck, this grown adult man makes my kid look like emily post

[mommy]

There's a point where "I'm sorry. [Husband] couldn't make it," is the best option, and that point happens before his table manners actively harm the household finances.

[jadelennox]

This is so much an on-the-nose description of a "thawed caveman" or "orangutan in a suit" slapstick comedy that I'm convinced it's fake.

Not a power trip, not an eating disorder, not an ableist description of a neuroatypical behavior or a racist way of describing a different cultural background. Just a straight-up fiction, so much that I wouldn't be surprised if it's a scene in Encino Man or Bedtime for Bonzo.

[lethe1]

Yep.

[tielan]

My thoughts are currently:

1. parody letter,

2. LW is married to someone who is mentally/behaviourlly deficient and should not be taking them out in professional scenarios,

3. LW is married to an emotionally/psychologically abusive man who is actively shattering her professional standard and they need Whole Man Garbage Removal Services stat.

[lilysea]

Look, I can see someone behaving like this for non-malicious reasons if they experienced parental abuse/neglect that meant they experienced desperate food shortages as a child.

But if that's the case,

a) he should stay home

b) he should seek therapy

[cimorene]

Yeah, this too. Another big element of this is that nobody acts this extreme in reality unless something Else Is Going On, and it's probably something big and/or bad and he probably needs help of some kind. At the very least, it seems bizarre that the spouse doesn't have an inkling of what that is - surely anybody would at SOME point try an actual conversation and not just hinting and scolding?!

[lemonsharks]

Sometimes the something else that's going on is that the person is actively sabotaging their partner's important thing on purpose.

I tend to think this "something else" is more likely for this letter than other options (childhood neglect, eating disorder, medical condition such as Prader Willi), because that information tends to be the sort of thing spouses know about and mention in advice column letters.