agonyaunt | Dear Prudence: Who Wouldn't Be Jealous?

[the lede is kind of buried]

Who wouldn’t be jealous? My (recently ex-)boyfriend and I dated for a year and a half and had lived together for a couple of months when I found out he still regularly masturbates to sex videos of himself and his ex, who is very beautiful and is now a minor celebrity. I told him I wasn’t comfortable with this and asked that he delete those videos. He didn’t want to, but I told him if he didn’t, we were through. I remained almost perfectly calm and stressed that he wasn’t necessarily doing anything wrong, I was just not comfortable with it personally and didn’t want to be in a relationship under those circumstances. He still wouldn’t delete the videos, so I did as I said I would and left, moving in with a female friend until I can get my own place again. My feeling is that if he chooses a few old videos over me, his love for me was never what I thought it was anyway.

But he continues to text and leave me voicemails, basically calling me a crazy, jealous b**** in one breath, and tearfully begging me to come back in the next—but without ever once offering to just delete the freaking videos. What gets me is, the friend I’m staying with and my other best friend both seem to agree with him, and think I should go back to him. My friend has plenty of room (I’m actually living in her pool house), so I think she just likes that he’s rich and good-looking, and they don’t think I can do any better. But I can’t see myself ever being OK with his holding onto and use of these videos. I doubt his ex would be thrilled about it if she knew, either. (Although she appears to have made the videos knowingly.) Am I completely wrongheaded or do I have the right to make this call?

A: You were right to express your feelings about the videos; if it’s something that bothers you and keeps you from feeling safe in your relationship, you should share it. But your ex-boyfriend wasn’t under any obligation to do as you asked. The easier compromise would be for him to delete the videos, true, but he didn’t want to do that. So, from my read, the greater issue in your relationship is that you felt you weren’t heard when you expressed an emotional need. That was a non-negotiable for you and that’s fine.

Your ex’s behavior after the breakup suggests that maybe you don’t need to be together. Your communication issue isn’t going to be solved by you setting ultimatums nor by him verbally abusing you. Your friends may think that he’s the best you can get because he’s rich but, like, who cares? If you’re not happy, you’re not happy.

It’s important, however, to think about this from a communication standpoint and ask yourself if you’d do anything differently or if you feel differently if you take the specifics of the video out of it. Couples sometimes get tangled up around masturbation and the question of whether it’s a part of their shared sexual experience or a solo endeavor. You two aren’t in agreement about what limits, if any, there should be around his masturbatory adventures. Maybe this makes him think you’re being unreasonable; maybe this makes you think he’s being insensitive. You both ran into a dealbreaker with this video but I suspect if it hadn’t been the video, it would have been something else.

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Does this soi-disant best friend have a perfect-for-funerals outfit she wants an opportunity to wear or something?

I have some... thoughts... about jealousy and masturbation in relationships. But whatever because the important issue here is DO NOT RETURN TO THIS GUY OMG.

Yeah, that. Especially this:

he continues to text and leave me voicemails, basically calling me a crazy, jealous b**** in one breath, and tearfully begging me to come back in the next—but without ever once offering to just delete the freaking videos.

sounds like BPD. (Disclaimer: I am not a pshrink or any kind of mental health professional, and am not qualified to diagnose, blah blah blah.)

yes! like, would I've liked LW to write for advice before she left? Definitely. But she didn't, and this guy is terrifying and must be avoided. And Prudie should have been pretty clear that this is scary-ass behaviour.

Good for Prudie for this line:

the greater issue in your relationship is that you felt you weren’t heard when you expressed an emotional need. That was a non-negotiable for you and that’s fine.

I am a bad person who would be tempted to rat him out to the ex, who may not know he still has these videos, let alone the wanking side of things.

1. Do not, under any circumstances, get back together with someone who is verbally abusive like that. Like, I don't even have to judge what happened to make you break up, he's showing his true colors right now, and you should believe him.

2. Get better friends. Like, maybe friends who won't support abuse.

That post-breakup behavior is Nobody Should Date This Guy Until He Gets His Shit Sorted Out material.

I didn't get the part where LW was uncomfortable with masturbation. They were definitely uncomfortable with 'masturbation-with-ex-partner-who-is-minor-celebrity', but the leap into "you have a problem with masturbation" by Prudence confused me.

Yeah, the "if you take the specifics of the video out of it" bit made me head tilt because the specifics of the video is the only problem. It's not quite at the level of "but aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" but it felt out of place.

I know a lot of people do have problems with that, but I agree, I don't see where LW has a general problem with masturbation in this letter, unless something was cut.

I think it's maybe an important thing to mention, because it is enough of an issue in relationships that even if it's not LW's problem, it may be part of what BF was reacting to. But I don't think the way Prudie brought it up is particularly helpful here. (And at this point it's all secondary to DON'T GET BACK WITH HIM, EVER)

It’s important, however, to think about this from a communication standpoint and ask yourself if you’d do anything differently or if you feel differently if you take the specifics of the video out of it. Couples sometimes get tangled up around masturbation and the question of whether it’s a part of their shared sexual experience or a solo endeavor. You two aren’t in agreement about what limits, if any, there should be around his masturbatory adventures. Maybe this makes him think you’re being unreasonable; maybe this makes you think he’s being insensitive. You both ran into a dealbreaker with this video but I suspect if it hadn’t been the video, it would have been something else.

This bit's all a bit wild, and I think Prudence got some wires crossed here and lost sight of the actual complaint.

The LW's bothered by him masturbating to sex tapes of himself and his ex, specifically. The problem as stated by the LW here is that the videos are of the ex -- i.e. of someone he may still have an emotional connection to.

LW may or may not have an issue with a partner watching porn, we don't have the evidence to say, but to decide to lecture them about how they're "tangled up" around masturbation from the two paragraphs... well, Prudence should play rugby; with that kind of reach they can score a try from outside the 22!

Have quoted before and will likely have to quote again: "Wanting to leave is reason enough to leave." --- Dear Sugar by way of Captain Awkward.

Ex's behavior post-breakup is totally not okay, and neither are friends' supporting it. (There's something significant here about class issues that I don't think I have enough information to unpack much less address, but friend she's staying with has a pool house she can live in, boyfriend is described as "good-looking and rich" and dated someone who went on to become a minor celebrity, and LW thinks her friends think he's the best she can do or something? There is STUFF there.)

That said, I'd suggest LW explore with a good mental health care provider just what about the whole thing with the "jacks off to sex tapes made with now-mildly-famous ex" was the problem for her. Because unless she only dates never-been-kissed virgins (which, were the genders reversed, I think no one here would question why that is its own problem) her partners are going to have had some kind of previous romantic/sexual experience, so figuring out what about what her ex was doing bothered her does kinda matter here, for one thing so that she can do a better job finding partners who will be compatible with her on this subject. (I admit, I'm kinda team ex-boyfriend about him being allowed to keep the videos, though maybe not masturbate to them--- though that kinda wanders into orgasm-denial kink and that's getting very far afield? But I'm team LW all the way about her not getting back with him given his post-breakup behavior.)

But he continues to text and leave me voicemails, basically calling me a crazy, jealous b**** in one breath, and tearfully begging me to come back in the next—but without ever once offering to just delete the freaking videos.

The videos are just the iceberg on top. The fact that he's calling LW like this is proof that he needs to be on the top of LW's shitlist.

LW, your first job here is to find a place to live that isn't reliant on someone who thinks you should get back with this boyfriend.

Your second job is to block your boyfriend however you can and definitely, definitely stop communicating with him.

Your third job is to find better friends.

*Then* maybe, in a couple of years, while you're hanging out with your new friends who would always support you in a breakup and who won't want you to get back together with a manipulative asshole, you can start to untangle the ethical questions of masturbating to old sex videos.

I'm leaving aside the ex-boyfriend's (abusive and gross) post-breakup behavior here and making a face at this:

"The easier compromise would be for him to delete the videos, true, but he didn’t want to do that."

That's not a compromise! That was her initial demand, and when he said no, she made it into an ultimatum!

It's possible two different human beings could have reached a compromise on this issue, but I'm really annoyed with the columnist's phrasing here.

Dear Prudence: Who Wouldn't Be Jealous?

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