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agonyaunt2021-07-23 07:58 pm
minoanmiss) wrote in agonyaunt2021-07-23 07:58 pm
Entry tags:
The THRILLING CONCLUSION
Prudie's Crowdsourced Answer to yesterday's parenting question.
Dear Mama Bear,
Thanks for your question, and I hope you don’t mind being the first person to get a crowdsourced answer. Starting this week, I’ll be choosing one letter from Thursday’s column to share with our readers and a few thousand of my closest friends on Twitter, who will then help inform my perspective. So, I did that yesterday, and now I feel prepared to answer. (And starting next week, these answers will be available for Slate Plus members only, so sign up now to never miss out.)
Some people who responded thought your question was fake, which, if it is, good job. I think what made it seem realistic to me was the reaching you did to come up with alternative explanations like “nonsexual codependency.” Those felt like desperate attempts to make this relationship something other than what it appears to be: romantic and sexual.
The reason I asked for help with your question was that it made my head spin a bit. My first thought was that these are two adults who aren’t hurting anyone (I still think that), so I was primarily debating whether there would be anything to be gained by letting them know that you suspect they’re in a relationship. But I felt like I was missing something, and the responses I received helped to clarify what that was: There were a couple of assumptions baked into your letter that really needed to be challenged.
1) That these young men think of themselves as brothers and therefore, this is incest.
A few readers responded that this reminded them a lot of the famous 2012 Prudie column about “twincest.” But this is actually very different. Several people pointed out that the boys were tweens, not infants, when they became “brothers,” and so they actually might not have siblinglike feelings toward each other at all, even though you and your husband wanted to create one big happy family:
“One thing this illustrates is how even if parents think their children relate as siblings in a blended family, the children may not see their relationship as sibling-like at all — hence parents’ shock is based on their expectations, not necessarily the kids’ reality” —jhedelstein
“If this were two best friend whose families were incredibly close growing up and they spent most of their pre/teen years together, would this be so distressing to the parents? They aren’t related; they didn’t spend ages 0-10 together, and they have a different mom/dad.” —angryangryalice
“They’re adults who have known one another since forever and found each other and assuming a deep love after awful loss. The parents should be happy that they have one another and leave it alone.” —heatherbarmore
2) That being gay is bad and/or temporary.
Others rightly highlighted the strong whiff of homophobia in your letter. You’re not just upset because they’re related, you’re upset because they’re both men. The fantasy that they will grow out of this “and meet women” (rather than other men or anyone with whom they don’t share siblings and parents) was a red flag. It’s not hard to imagine that their awareness of your attitude about gayness might help explain why they’ve chosen to keep this a secret:
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“Let them come to you and get thyself to counseling for that underlying homophobia you got going on, mom.” —875thyme
“Lw & lw’s spouse might consider therapy &/or pflag to find out why they think the stepsibs relationship is unhealthy imho its adorably sweet meet cute story for the sons, bottom line address your own issues 1st b4 thinking ur son will open up to you” —denisemklein
“maybe it’s non-sexual codependency” ma’am how is that better than if they are in a happy sexual relationship?? (i think i know the answer!!!!!)” —cryingbaseball
Now of course, it’s not always ideal to date a stepsibling, because, as we have seen in previous letters, things can get awkward at family events if the relationship falls apart. But that ship has seemingly sailed. And the good news is, if they are a couple, this wasn’t just some one-off hookup or fling. If they’ve made these arrangements in their apartment, it seems they’ve been very close for a very long time and are making things work.
That doesn’t mean this isn’t surprising and uncomfortable to you. You saw them as brothers, and you’ll need to adjust. As Jack Arnott put it in a comment on the site, “You might need to recalibrate, take a step back, and see it from the other side, and take into account how these young men are acting; nothing in the letter indicates that they are anything but happy and healthy especially (gestures broadly) given what we are going through.”
So how do you get there? Before you say a word, you should first get to a place—through reading, therapy (“I know the answer always includes therapy but this answer absolutely NEEDS THERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!! SO MANY THERAPY! ALL OF THE THERAPY! Not to introduce shame but to help process how to go forward. Omg,” asnerdista put it), support groups, quiet reflection, or whatever it takes—where you are ready to hear that they are two people who may have lived in the same house when they were younger but don’t see themselves as siblings. And you should especially stay quiet if you can’t get past your homophobia and truly believe and feel that it is OK to be gay.
When and if you are ready, inquire with curiosity and no judgment.readingtheend had good advice on this: “they should raise it with the kids in a curious and non-judgmental way: ‘Hey, we saw you’ve only got one bed. are the two of you involved? do you want to talk with us about that?’ rather than a shaming/punitive way (‘this is so unhealthy & you can’t see your siblings anymore’).”
And remember that if you want to deepen your relationship, it will require more than just tolerance. I imagine your sons want to feel supported by you in a way they haven’t before. You’ll need to have a larger conversation, probably involving an apology, about how they were left to their own devices while dealing with major losses while you parented the younger kids. Oh, and say you’re sorry for snooping.
Dear Mama Bear,
Thanks for your question, and I hope you don’t mind being the first person to get a crowdsourced answer. Starting this week, I’ll be choosing one letter from Thursday’s column to share with our readers and a few thousand of my closest friends on Twitter, who will then help inform my perspective. So, I did that yesterday, and now I feel prepared to answer. (And starting next week, these answers will be available for Slate Plus members only, so sign up now to never miss out.)
Some people who responded thought your question was fake, which, if it is, good job. I think what made it seem realistic to me was the reaching you did to come up with alternative explanations like “nonsexual codependency.” Those felt like desperate attempts to make this relationship something other than what it appears to be: romantic and sexual.
The reason I asked for help with your question was that it made my head spin a bit. My first thought was that these are two adults who aren’t hurting anyone (I still think that), so I was primarily debating whether there would be anything to be gained by letting them know that you suspect they’re in a relationship. But I felt like I was missing something, and the responses I received helped to clarify what that was: There were a couple of assumptions baked into your letter that really needed to be challenged.
1) That these young men think of themselves as brothers and therefore, this is incest.
A few readers responded that this reminded them a lot of the famous 2012 Prudie column about “twincest.” But this is actually very different. Several people pointed out that the boys were tweens, not infants, when they became “brothers,” and so they actually might not have siblinglike feelings toward each other at all, even though you and your husband wanted to create one big happy family:
“One thing this illustrates is how even if parents think their children relate as siblings in a blended family, the children may not see their relationship as sibling-like at all — hence parents’ shock is based on their expectations, not necessarily the kids’ reality” —
jhedelstein“If this were two best friend whose families were incredibly close growing up and they spent most of their pre/teen years together, would this be so distressing to the parents? They aren’t related; they didn’t spend ages 0-10 together, and they have a different mom/dad.” —
angryangryalice“They’re adults who have known one another since forever and found each other and assuming a deep love after awful loss. The parents should be happy that they have one another and leave it alone.” —
heatherbarmore2) That being gay is bad and/or temporary.
Others rightly highlighted the strong whiff of homophobia in your letter. You’re not just upset because they’re related, you’re upset because they’re both men. The fantasy that they will grow out of this “and meet women” (rather than other men or anyone with whom they don’t share siblings and parents) was a red flag. It’s not hard to imagine that their awareness of your attitude about gayness might help explain why they’ve chosen to keep this a secret:
Advertisement
“Let them come to you and get thyself to counseling for that underlying homophobia you got going on, mom.” —
875thyme“Lw & lw’s spouse might consider therapy &/or pflag to find out why they think the stepsibs relationship is unhealthy imho its adorably sweet meet cute story for the sons, bottom line address your own issues 1st b4 thinking ur son will open up to you” —
denisemklein“maybe it’s non-sexual codependency” ma’am how is that better than if they are in a happy sexual relationship?? (i think i know the answer!!!!!)” —
cryingbaseballNow of course, it’s not always ideal to date a stepsibling, because, as we have seen in previous letters, things can get awkward at family events if the relationship falls apart. But that ship has seemingly sailed. And the good news is, if they are a couple, this wasn’t just some one-off hookup or fling. If they’ve made these arrangements in their apartment, it seems they’ve been very close for a very long time and are making things work.
That doesn’t mean this isn’t surprising and uncomfortable to you. You saw them as brothers, and you’ll need to adjust. As Jack Arnott put it in a comment on the site, “You might need to recalibrate, take a step back, and see it from the other side, and take into account how these young men are acting; nothing in the letter indicates that they are anything but happy and healthy especially (gestures broadly) given what we are going through.”
So how do you get there? Before you say a word, you should first get to a place—through reading, therapy (“I know the answer always includes therapy but this answer absolutely NEEDS THERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!! SO MANY THERAPY! ALL OF THE THERAPY! Not to introduce shame but to help process how to go forward. Omg,” as
nerdista put it), support groups, quiet reflection, or whatever it takes—where you are ready to hear that they are two people who may have lived in the same house when they were younger but don’t see themselves as siblings. And you should especially stay quiet if you can’t get past your homophobia and truly believe and feel that it is OK to be gay.When and if you are ready, inquire with curiosity and no judgment.
readingtheend had good advice on this: “they should raise it with the kids in a curious and non-judgmental way: ‘Hey, we saw you’ve only got one bed. are the two of you involved? do you want to talk with us about that?’ rather than a shaming/punitive way (‘this is so unhealthy & you can’t see your siblings anymore’).”And remember that if you want to deepen your relationship, it will require more than just tolerance. I imagine your sons want to feel supported by you in a way they haven’t before. You’ll need to have a larger conversation, probably involving an apology, about how they were left to their own devices while dealing with major losses while you parented the younger kids. Oh, and say you’re sorry for snooping.
no subject
Interesting, the crowd hit basically the same points we all did.
no subject
Actually, all the parsing out of the issues was delightful, too. I'm sure that sometimes the comments section needs to be set on fire and burned to the ground (and maybe the comment section did need it) but the advice Prudie has gleaned seems good and excellent.