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Two letters on kids' sexual orientation
I already posted one letter from this specific column, just below, here are two more. They're similar enough in theme that it made sense to group them together.
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My 13-year-old daughter is a free spirit. She is the first one to stick up for the underdog (animal rights, women’s rights, Black Lives Matter, LGBTQ rights, etc.). Recently she has told us that she might like girls but she is not sure, and my husband and I have told her that no matter who she chooses to love, we will love and support her. The trouble is that because she has spoken openly about how she might be bisexual, she is being picked on at school by boys who used to like her. She does not shy away from who she is, but she is bothered by how she is being treated. We are a religious family and my daughter is being told by some of these boys that being gay is a sin and that she is not going to heaven, which makes her feel awful. I’m not sure how to help her! Is there anything I can do other than to tell her that she has our support?
—Confused Parent
Yes. You can tell her firmly that these boys are wrong—that being gay is not a sin, that it would not keep her out of heaven, and that as a religious family you are certain that God loves us all, no matter who we are or whom we love. And if the latter is not (yet) true, if you practice a faith that preaches otherwise, one important way to support your daughter—which goes well beyond telling her that she has your support—is to begin now to practice your faith in a way that aligns with your determination to be good parents and good people.
I would also ask her what she would like you to do about the bullying that is going on at school. If you report it to school authorities, will they support her and hold the boys accountable? Would it be helpful—or counterproductive—for you to contact the boys’ parents? Talk to her; make it clear that you’ve got her back.
I hope, by the way, that you have been supportive (and not just tolerant) of her championing the rights of others. Your daughter sounds like a great kid. What she deserves (ah, well, what every kid deserves—and if every kid got it, there might not be any bullies) is the full-throated, wholehearted support of her parents, always.
***
Recently, I was going through my 15-year-old daughter’s phone (I believe parents have the right to know what their kids are doing/seeing online), and I stumbled upon several Google searches on the topic of asexuality. I don’t know what to do with this information, and I’m concerned that my daughter thinks she is asexual. That would mean she’s been having sex and decided she didn’t like it, right? How else would she know? Should I confront her about it? I don’t want her to decide this about herself at 15 and then hold on to it forever, especially because I would like her to settle down and have kids someday. I’m worrying too much about nothing, right?
—Fifteen Is Too Young
Your teenager’s Googling “asexuality” does not (necessarily) mean she’s been having sex and disliked it and has found what she believes to be the explanation for that. (Indeed, this seems to me the least likely reason for her search.) I can think of lots of reasons she’s reading about asexuality online. Perhaps she’s wondering why she isn’t thinking about sex when her friends are. Or she may be trying to understand a friend—or even a celebrity, or an Instagram “celebrity”—who has come out as asexual. Or she heard someone mention it and she pretended to know what it meant and the internet is the only place she knows of to learn what it is—or to learn what anything is that she’s heard of but that hasn’t been talked about at home or in school. Or—yes—she may have figured out that she is asexual and doesn’t know where else to go but Google for more information.
But you most certainly should not “confront” her about it. If she is considering this possibility about herself—or has concluded that it’s true—it’s not for you to insist otherwise. If your relationship with her is one that offers her the opportunity to talk such things through with you, then she will, when she’s ready. If it isn’t, then she won’t (and forcing her to talk about it is not going to go well; most likely it will result only in efforts at secrecy that she hasn’t employed up to now). But your not wanting her to “decide this” about herself is, I’m afraid, irrelevant. She gets to figure out who she is without the permission of her parents. And if she does think she knows something about herself that changes later on (because she is still young, and her identity may still be in flux for some time), you are going to have to trust her to recognize change when/if it comes. Honestly, you have no choice about that. She is her own person.
Finally, that you would like her to “settle down and have kids someday” is something you are going to have to accept as your wish for her, which may or may not turn out to be her wish for herself. It’s hard to be the parent of a 15-year-old—I understand that. But now is exactly the right time for you to start accepting that what you want for her and what she wants—and who you want her to be and who she is—may be quite distinct. This is a process, but it’s a process every good parent must go through sooner or later.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/04/search-birth-parents-adoption-parenting-advice-from-care-and-feeding.html
My 13-year-old daughter is a free spirit. She is the first one to stick up for the underdog (animal rights, women’s rights, Black Lives Matter, LGBTQ rights, etc.). Recently she has told us that she might like girls but she is not sure, and my husband and I have told her that no matter who she chooses to love, we will love and support her. The trouble is that because she has spoken openly about how she might be bisexual, she is being picked on at school by boys who used to like her. She does not shy away from who she is, but she is bothered by how she is being treated. We are a religious family and my daughter is being told by some of these boys that being gay is a sin and that she is not going to heaven, which makes her feel awful. I’m not sure how to help her! Is there anything I can do other than to tell her that she has our support?
—Confused Parent
Yes. You can tell her firmly that these boys are wrong—that being gay is not a sin, that it would not keep her out of heaven, and that as a religious family you are certain that God loves us all, no matter who we are or whom we love. And if the latter is not (yet) true, if you practice a faith that preaches otherwise, one important way to support your daughter—which goes well beyond telling her that she has your support—is to begin now to practice your faith in a way that aligns with your determination to be good parents and good people.
I would also ask her what she would like you to do about the bullying that is going on at school. If you report it to school authorities, will they support her and hold the boys accountable? Would it be helpful—or counterproductive—for you to contact the boys’ parents? Talk to her; make it clear that you’ve got her back.
I hope, by the way, that you have been supportive (and not just tolerant) of her championing the rights of others. Your daughter sounds like a great kid. What she deserves (ah, well, what every kid deserves—and if every kid got it, there might not be any bullies) is the full-throated, wholehearted support of her parents, always.
Recently, I was going through my 15-year-old daughter’s phone (I believe parents have the right to know what their kids are doing/seeing online), and I stumbled upon several Google searches on the topic of asexuality. I don’t know what to do with this information, and I’m concerned that my daughter thinks she is asexual. That would mean she’s been having sex and decided she didn’t like it, right? How else would she know? Should I confront her about it? I don’t want her to decide this about herself at 15 and then hold on to it forever, especially because I would like her to settle down and have kids someday. I’m worrying too much about nothing, right?
—Fifteen Is Too Young
Your teenager’s Googling “asexuality” does not (necessarily) mean she’s been having sex and disliked it and has found what she believes to be the explanation for that. (Indeed, this seems to me the least likely reason for her search.) I can think of lots of reasons she’s reading about asexuality online. Perhaps she’s wondering why she isn’t thinking about sex when her friends are. Or she may be trying to understand a friend—or even a celebrity, or an Instagram “celebrity”—who has come out as asexual. Or she heard someone mention it and she pretended to know what it meant and the internet is the only place she knows of to learn what it is—or to learn what anything is that she’s heard of but that hasn’t been talked about at home or in school. Or—yes—she may have figured out that she is asexual and doesn’t know where else to go but Google for more information.
But you most certainly should not “confront” her about it. If she is considering this possibility about herself—or has concluded that it’s true—it’s not for you to insist otherwise. If your relationship with her is one that offers her the opportunity to talk such things through with you, then she will, when she’s ready. If it isn’t, then she won’t (and forcing her to talk about it is not going to go well; most likely it will result only in efforts at secrecy that she hasn’t employed up to now). But your not wanting her to “decide this” about herself is, I’m afraid, irrelevant. She gets to figure out who she is without the permission of her parents. And if she does think she knows something about herself that changes later on (because she is still young, and her identity may still be in flux for some time), you are going to have to trust her to recognize change when/if it comes. Honestly, you have no choice about that. She is her own person.
Finally, that you would like her to “settle down and have kids someday” is something you are going to have to accept as your wish for her, which may or may not turn out to be her wish for herself. It’s hard to be the parent of a 15-year-old—I understand that. But now is exactly the right time for you to start accepting that what you want for her and what she wants—and who you want her to be and who she is—may be quite distinct. This is a process, but it’s a process every good parent must go through sooner or later.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/04/search-birth-parents-adoption-parenting-advice-from-care-and-feeding.html
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2. LW2 may have the legal right to read their kid's internet history, but this hysterical reaction proves that they don't have the responsibility for this burden. Unless they have a solid reason to believe something is badly wrong - and this ain't it! - they need to stop snooping on their kid.
2a. God, I hope that Daughter cuts ties after college and never looks back. Everything about this letter just screams "This is only the behavior LW2 openly admits to...!" In fact, I hope LW2 ignores this advice and DOES confront Daughter about it, if only so Daughter can smarten up and start taking steps to protect her privacy.
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As I just said to my daughter (who is also screaming about this letter), if she was looking up "how to get birth control without parental consent," I'd guess that the daughter might be having sex or contemplating it -- but looking up "asexuality" likely means that she's wondering if she's a late bloomer, or if lack of attraction/sexual feelings means that she's "normal," if all her friends are getting crushes or talking about sex, or if she even just SAW THE TERM AND WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANT, ffs.
I am also not in favor of parents going through their kids' possessions/internet history without actual reason for concern.
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100% agree! Once someone is 12 or so,
you shouldn't invade their privacy without LEGITIMATE concern that
a) they are at GENUINE risk from mental illness/self harm/suicide
b) they are at GENUINE risk from with sexual predators
c) they are at GENUINE risk from serious online bullying
d) they are at GENUINE risk from dangerous drug/alcohol use eg addiction/dependency
e) they are at GENUINE risk from an abusive family member
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I admit, things were a little easier in terms of keeping a half-eye on online safety when the family desktop computer was in the living room, rather than in a pocket (my daughter is 28), but I still respected her privacy and made sure she had access to safe/accurate avenues for curiosity and exploration (like Scarleteen), but we also had CONVERSATIONS and just normalized talking about this stuff and not making any of it a big forbidden topic.
Amusingly enough, given where I’m typing this, the fact that we’re both addicted to advice columns was REALLY HELPFUL — we could critique bad advice and discuss good advice and pick over the problems people posted, and discuss healthy ways of interacting, without it hitting super close to home in terms of pushing her privacy boundaries about her own feelings/relationships.
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Yo, likewise, but I suspect C&F wisely decided that LW would ignore any advice if they stated that openly.
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2. I can't even.
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Oh, huh, that's not how I read it at all! I read it as "our daughter is religious [and Christian, probably, given the way LW talks about heaven], and she's proud to be bisexual but it's scary to her when she's told bisexuality will send her to hell."
Even though the answers were, I thought, good, I would have specified that the parents could find a queer or allied religious leader from an open and affirming congregation of their denomination, if one exists, and have that person offer to start a conversation with daughter -- or with LW!
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Even though the answers were, I thought, good, I would have specified that the parents could find a queer or allied religious leader from an open and affirming congregation of their denomination, if one exists, and have that person offer to start a conversation with daughter -- or with LW!
I agree very strongly. That advice to "begin now to practice your faith in a way" that supports their more supportive intentions could mean joining a more affirming congregation (and may have been intended that way!) Or it could mean changing their home religious practice, while staying in their current congregation/youth group/Sunday school/day school despite its homophobia or "we aren't homophobic; we hate the sin and love the sinner."
No matter how much of a free spirit this girl might be, it will help her to find a supportive community. Support that is only within her family is good, but not enough.
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(I think this may have been just a little after the days when the answer would have been 'just trot down to theGateways Club in Chelsea'.)
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We're snarking, but one of my friends - when he came out to his parents in high school - his father literally asked him "Well, have you tried women, son?"
It's hilarious, albeit because the friend whose father said this to him told me anecdote though the lens of thinking that it was hilarious (and not having expected initial reactions to go any better when he came out to them)
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To bring a personal point of anecdata to the table, I first looked up asexuality online after YEARS AND YEARS of not having sex with anyone and wondering (in a vague, desultory way) if a lack of sexual attraction meant something was wrong with me. You don't need to try out sex with people of whatever group in order to have a feeling that you would or wouldn't like that type (or any type) of sex! *headdesk*
As for LW #1, I'd suggest starting by telling the daughter that she's not going to hell. Hopefully they've already done that, but they didn't say so and given the context of the LW feeling a need to state that they're a religious family, that omission makes me a little suspicious.
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That said... this mom ain't it. Not only does she sound extremely controlling but that line about how her daughter can't possibly decide she's asexual because she wants her to settle down and have kids... wtf?? The face I made when I read that...
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2) Stop going through your daughter's phone! If she knows you do it, she probably doesn't trust you with anything important to her; if she doesn't know, telling her will break any trust she does have in you.
As to her googling asexuality, maybe she's asexual, maybe she's questioning, maybe she's looking up info to support a friend. All of your responses are bad, whatever the situation actually is. You can't determine someone's sexuality FOR them, and trying to pressure people to perform sexuality to your standards is just going to make them miserable.
Also, the conclusion that "she must have tried sex and not liked if she's decided she's asexual" is just bizarre. Wouldn't she "hasn't been interested in trying sex and all her friends have, and she's trying to understand why she's not" be an equally if not more likely conclusion to jump to? I mean, if she's asexual, there's a good chance she's not interested in sex to the point of refusing it if offered or even pressured; maybe you should look up AVEN's "friends and family" boards.
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I decided I was bisexual after having had sex with one person -- because one type wasn't the only thing I was interested in.
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I suspect that in many peoples minds, bad sex at 15 is closely associated with coercive or other problematic sexual relations, rather than fun exploratory sexual activity. Certainly, that was my first thought.
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Oh, absolutely. I was thinking more about the pattern of responses, rather than the letter. I'm, shall we say, inclined to go off at tangents.
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Mm, technically exactly the right time for this was 15 years ago. But it's never too late to start!
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Hey, my mother believed this too! She also would go through my phone and my emails and, memorably, told me she would have the right to read my diary because it's important to her to know what I was doing so she could keep me safe.
Also, several years on, I still will not tell her anything important about myself.
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(My parents also read my diary. All sympathies.)
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I made him give me his passwords, locked it down myself, explained this was the lowest security he was allowed until he was fourteen, and did random checks for a while and lock him out of the wifi if I saw anything I didn't like. And compliance meant he got to change his passwords in sixish months.
(Hint: I never bothered, that was way too much work, but he thought I was watching, and it did set good security habits on his personal accounts to this day. If I can't find them, he's done a good job.)
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When my son, around thirteenish I think, I came out to me--over IM no less--and said 'don't be disappointed' my first thought was utter horror how I'd fucked up and trying to work out what horrific thing I"d done and what I needed to do stat to fix it because I must have done something terrible for him to think that and that was on me. For a not-entirely-short period of time, I was All Supportive Researching Shit Parent of Gay Child and boy was he glad when I calmed down. Like, audibly and often.
Years later, and I mean years, I asked him how much he'd worried about telling me and how I was sorry for that and he said he really hadn't been, but--and this is loose because I don't remember the exact words--he and friends were discussing coming out, as probably not coincidentally, most (all???) of Child's friend group going all the way back to elementary school are gay, lesbian, bi, ace and sometimes also vegan. And that was one of the things that came up in discussion regarding 'parents' (not without justice from what I"ve heard of some of them) and 'coming out'. So he wanted to cover his bases.
That wasn't close to the only time I made great and weird leaps, either. Parenting is in this one way surprisingly similar to major depression, anxiety, having a condition that causes delusions, and being seven years old with an active imagination; for some reason, every so often, rational thought just doesn't work and sometimes, even worse, you're not even aware Rationality has been disabled and you, all unawares, have booted into the Dream Logic OS.
Like, in retrospect I can sometimes see places where I was on the Wait What Train to You're Kidding Right, but while you're on it, you have no idea and think it all makes sense
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I may have made angry noises reading this.
Signed,
Kinky ace who has never had sex, is not sex-averse, has googled a ton of stuff I haven't necessarily done, and has flames on the side of my face rn
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This is probably not what the kid wants, however.
Next best things are removing the kid from this school and placing her in a more progressive one, even if the "quality of education" is "worse" (aka, usually "aggregate skintone is darker"), and teaching her how to break friendships and maintain boundaries with people who are cruel. And to back her up completely when the school tries to get her to make herself smaller and more convenient.
(My middle school tried to get me to Forgive And Make Up with a person who stole my parents' credit card and made $5,000 worth of fraudulent charges. That went about as well as you'd expect.)
As for the kid in the second letter---Yikes. Just YIKES.
This is getting up to "you sassed me so I took away your door" level parenting nopes and I do not like it.