colorwheel: joan baez playing guitar and singing (joan baez)
colorwheel ([personal profile] colorwheel) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2020-05-05 03:02 am

The Gentle Butch: "So now we can’t even say hi to a service dog?"

Dear Gentle Butch,

I know we aren’t supposed to touch service dogs, but we can look at them, right? What if the dog approaches us first?

I was walking toward a woman with a service dog on the sidewalk, and her dog was so incredibly cute! It was a beautiful shiny black Lab bursting with Lab cuteness, with floppy soft ears and a big doggie smile.

I love dogs. I didn’t say anything at all, but as we got closer I did look at the dog, smile, and give it a little wave. He wagged his tail.

As I passed, the dog’s tail got faster, it raised its head, and sniffed at my knuckles. I paused and turned my hand around for him, and he gave it a little kiss as he went by.

I would never have touched a service dog that hadn’t sniffed me, and I didn’t even really touch him as it was!

The woman yanked the dog closer to her and snarled at me: “Interfering with a service dog is against the law!” And kept wheeling down the street away from me.

I didn’t even make her and the dog slow down on their way.

I know I shouldn’t touch them, and I didn’t! But I feel really bad. She was just so angry! I don’t think I did anything wrong, and I don’t see why she had to be so mean about it.

What do you think?

— I Love Dogs


*

Dear ILD,

Listen. I get it. I really do. I am also a dog lover, and human beings evolved next to dogs. Our species are inextricably linked, and when you’re a dog person it’s nearly impossible to reject a doggie overture.

Studies show that dogs in the workplace lower stress levels, and they make obnoxious teens and stoic butches alike coo and make baby talk and kissy noises. Their fur begs to be pet and their noses beg to be kissed. And dogs — especially Labs — love attention from people.

That’s where things get sticky with service animals.

My service dog loves people — especially children. And other dogs. If I allowed it, he would spend his days as a social butterfly distributing kisses and soliciting treats rather than supporting me.

And that’s the thing: service dogs have a job to do. And when they are distracted or when they are hoping for and expecting attention from others, that’s when things can get dangerous for their disabled handlers.

You say that the dog initiated with you, and that you didn’t slow them down or touch him.

But you actually initiated with the dog. Making eye contact and waving is very appealing to friendly dogs.

And if you were close enough for the dog to sniff the back of your hand? You were too close.

Service dogs need space to work. Walking close enough to one for him to sniff you, even if you hadn’t gotten his attention first, is very distracting.

Think about it: if every person (or even every tenth person) who walked past that woman and her dog waved and interacted with her dog, the dog would stop paying attention to his handler and start looking around and maybe even lunging toward people for attention, play, etc.

My dog once lunged when I was in my wheelchair, and I ended up in a heap on the sidewalk.

It’s dangerous for the dog, too — a man once made kissy noises at my dog, he looked at that damn kissy man instead of where he was going, and I rolled over his toes.

So: next time you see someone with a service dog, even if you’re on a crowded sidewalk or in a narrow hallway, avoid eye contact with the dog and give them a wide berth by either walking out toward the curb or even stepping aside for them to pass.

I think many people make the mistaken assumption that service dogs are so perfectly trained that they are basically robots; if the dog shouldn’t sniff, he shouldn’t sniff no matter what.

But dogs are dogs, and no training is perfect, and when people walk by offering attention over and over, it erodes the training the dog has gone through.

I know it hurts. Like, I mean, if you love dogs it can sometimes actually feel like a physical pain to refrain from at least even saying hi.

But don’t do it. Just don’t. It is dangerous for the handler and for the dog.

Now: you are wondering why the handler was so angry.

I confess, although my name is Gentle, that reading this letter angered me, too — even as I understood how easy it is to make a mistake like you did.

See, disabled people, like any marginalized group, deal with microaggressions every day — be it people TALKING VERY SLOWLY IN THEIR SPECIAL VOICE, grabbing our wheelchairs, asking why we ‘need those sticks,’ or stealing the parking spaces set aside for us so that we have enough room to enter and exit with our equipment.

So I am nearly certain that you were not the first person who interfered with her dog that week, and probably not even the first to interfere that day — and after a certain point, all of us just snap.

The type of behavior you describe is really, really distracting to the dog and it’s incredibly enraging to a handler, no matter how well-meaning you were. That’s why the handler got so angry. It’s as simple as that.

I know it stings to have a stranger rage at you in public, and I also know that not a lot of people get good information on how to deal with service dogs in public except for ‘don’t touch.’

But now you know for next time, and hopefully by writing in, other people now know, too.
tielan: (Default)

[personal profile] tielan 2020-05-05 07:14 am (UTC)(link)
I am imagining LW who wrote this huffing like those people outraged at being asked to stay home and limit contact so their gran won't get sick.

It's a small thing, a drop in the bucket. But, NOOOO, it's too much to ask! FREEEDOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!

ashbet: (Default)

[personal profile] ashbet 2020-05-05 07:34 am (UTC)(link)
Interestingly, I’ve seen this letter before, in another column (will have to dig to find it), and the LW got very similar advice — wonder if they were hoping that another columnist would be more sympathetic to their tender crushed feelings of being denied the attention of a working service animal.

*eyeroll forever*
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2020-05-05 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I googled the first sentence but only found this letter. I love to compare and contrast, so if you see it please post it.
ashbet: (Secret)

[personal profile] ashbet 2020-05-05 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I couldn’t find it, unfortunately — but I had definitely read this exact letter (the phrasing was distinctive), and I wasn’t familiar with the Gentle Butch columnist.

(The advice given was very similar, FWIW!)
azurelunatic: a modification of the Oxidizer hazard label reading 'Caution Flaming Asshole'  (flaming)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2020-05-05 09:09 am (UTC)(link)
There's no "now" about it.
ioplokon: purple cloth (Default)

[personal profile] ioplokon 2020-05-05 10:21 am (UTC)(link)
Also this goes against common courtesy, which is to greet the human before you greet the dog.
delight: (Default)

[personal profile] delight 2020-05-05 01:08 pm (UTC)(link)
People make kissy noises at my SD all the time. It upsets him. It is exhausting. People need to stop.
lemonsharks: (flames)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-05-05 02:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh my god, how is this a even a question? No, no you may not interact with a service dog in any way. No, not even that way. Or that way!

I know it hurts. Like, I mean, if you love dogs it can sometimes actually feel like a physical pain to refrain from at least even saying hi.

SERIOUSLY? Is this a real thing? Is this a real, actual thing? Or are we just placating the asshole by "acknowledging" how "hard" it is for them to not interfere with a service dog at work?
minoanmiss: Nubian girl with dubious facial expression (dubious Nubian girl)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-05-05 02:55 pm (UTC)(link)
We're placating the asshole. And what an asshole this one is. "WHY DID THAT UPPITY DISABLED WOMAN HAVE TO BE SO ANNNNNNNGRRYYYYYYYYYY??????" ugh. Go enumerate your privileges and leave the damn dog alone, LW.
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2020-05-05 03:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh my god, how is this a even a question?

If I didn't participate in online communities, like this one, where such issues are discussed, I wouldn't know that even low-level interaction with service dogs isn't allowed. I'm not at all surprised this kind of question still appears. A lot of knowledge common in these communities is not common in the general population.

I don't blame LW for feeling a bit stung after the woman yelled at her. I do blame LW for responding by getting defensive instead of trying to understand where the woman was coming from. Sure, yelling at strangers is inappropriate, but LW should try to get beyond a minor rudeness to learn a bigger lesson. Hopefully the columnist's response will help with that.

edit: I meant to respond to the comment level one above this... oops. Oh well.
Edited 2020-05-05 15:29 (UTC)
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Lady in Blue)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-05-05 04:30 pm (UTC)(link)
" I do blame LW for responding by getting defensive instead of trying to understand where the woman was coming from. "

Yeah, this. With an extra dollop of -- how do I put this? I have experienced many times when someone got mad at me for being upset with them because they think I have lesser social standing than they do and therefore have no right to be angry with someone better than me such as them. I've seen it many times in other interactions where one person is in a position to look down upon the other if they so choose. I see waves of that attitude radiating off LW's letter.

Honestly, I hope LW listens to the advice, but considering that "I didn't even do anything wrong!" I wouldn't bet on it. But we can only hope.
lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-05-05 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
That's fair - I have a disproportionately large number of friends who run in disability rights/advocacy/activism circles, and so it also didn't occur to me that this is a question one could have in good faith.
kiezh: Text: Apparently it was going to be one of those days when people made no sense whatsoever. (mina de malfois says people make no sens)

[personal profile] kiezh 2020-05-05 07:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I think there are people who could ask that question in good faith, but LW isn't one of them - in fact, writing a self-righteous letter to an advice columnist about how they didn't do anything wrong and a disabled person was OMG SO MEAN to them is in itself a sign of bad faith. (Just like the LW from the "opening doors for wheelchair users" letter!)

There are probably a lot of people who try to flirt with an on-duty service animal, get told off for it, go "omg is that a thing???" and google it. Then they find out that it is, in fact, a thing. Obvs those people are still kind of a drain to the people with service animals, and more public awareness would help, but at least they're not popping up in advice columns to show off their ableism - possibly some of them are telling all their friends and family about this thing they learned about service animals, which is even helpful.

The advice was kind of saturated with sickly sweet appeasing language, but I think that may have been playing to the audience, in the hope that some readers would be more able to take the lesson ("don't interfere with service animals") to heart if it was slathered in sugar ("you're totally not a bad person! anyone would want to pet the dog! it's so hard not to get what you want!"). I hope it worked for its target audience, but I also found it pretty nauseating.
lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-05-05 07:26 pm (UTC)(link)

yeah, the tone of the response was like chewing on aluminum foil to me, and if that's what it takes to get through to people, well. that is both horrifying and daunting.

minoanmiss: A Minoan Harper, wearing a long robe, sitting on a rock (Minoan Harper)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-05-05 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I have employed that kind of language time and again, and it makes me sick to my stomach.
lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-05-05 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
and also very much: yes, we need allies to take up this work, even/especially when it is horrifying and daunting.
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2020-05-05 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Agreed that LW wasn't asking the question in good faith. I wasn't going to comment on how I found the columnist's style obnoxious since I agreed with the message, but I'm intrigued by your point that the columnist chose that style to get through to more people. I admit I find it a little hard to believe it will work since I myself find it so off-putting, but maybe.
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2020-05-05 08:26 pm (UTC)(link)
You're not the person they need to get through to.
minoanmiss: sketch of two Minoan wome (Minoan Friends)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-05-05 09:42 pm (UTC)(link)
There are certain hints in the letter that the LW wants to be coddled and have their *horribly* bruised feelings soothed, and want an excuse to become even more defensive. One way to [try to] sneak a clue into someone like that is to wrap it in a great deal of gentle-sounding coddling language. Another is to just call out what they're doing and tell them they're being ridiculous. I was advised in my youth to use the former method, and it sometimes works, as long as one can keep from inflaming their outraged sensibilities. It's not great for provoking self reflection but sometimes it can help the person not be quite as awful to disprivileged people, and sometimes one has to choose the latter goal over trying to get both.

Someone who isn't going to be defensively clue resistant doesn't need such glurginess, and tends to look at it and wonder why the actual message has to be wrapped and interwoven with so much padding, I've found.
erika: (sga: woe is me)

[personal profile] erika 2020-05-07 06:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, this. I've worked in mental health care for... 6 years now? Wow. Anyway, my natural tendency is to call people out. However, defensiveness like that coming from this LW usually responds better to being validated, given understanding, and then gently guided to understanding that whatever benign impulse I've assigned to them can be better expressed through this other behavior. Thank you for being so loving to dogs, LW, and also the best way to love this dog is by leaving it alone, basically.

Also, I notice most people in meatspace (especially if neurotypical) can't really take blunt constructive criticism like my neurodiverse/internet friends can.
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2020-05-05 08:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, I am so creeped out by the way this guy writes about this dog compared to the dog's human.

Also, even four year old children can be expected to learn "Don't interact with a strange dog unless you've asked its owner for permission" and "Never bother a working animal when it is at work" so I don't know why he doesn't seem to understand that rule.
Edited 2020-05-05 20:28 (UTC)
jadelennox: Oracle about to kick ass: "'cripple', my butt." (gimp: cripple)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2020-05-06 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
"I am so creeped out by the way this guy writes about this dog compared to the dog's human."

This. The microagression the columnist didn't even address is "I saw a working dog and a disabled person together, and I decided to wave and smile to the dog."

Edited (quoting the part i am replying to) 2020-05-06 01:47 (UTC)
cynthia1960: cartoon of me with gray hair wearing glasses (Default)

[personal profile] cynthia1960 2020-05-06 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
+1000
jadelennox: Senora Sabasa Garcia, by Goya (Default)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2020-05-06 01:46 am (UTC)(link)
I know it's off the subject, but:

Studies show that dogs in the workplace lower stress levels


I mean, do they? Do they really? And do those studies control for all the people who don't even apply for jobs at dog-friendly workplaces, or who are forced out when a workplace goes dog-friendly?

(I'm whingeing about pet dogs in the office, obvs, not working dogs.)

lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-05-06 12:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I've worked in a dog friendly workplace and after the novelty wore off it was *Awful* for me
cereta: Barbie as the Pearl Princess, "Fights like a PRINCESS" (Lumina)

[personal profile] cereta 2020-05-06 01:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I've never worked at one, but I really wouldn't be de-stressed by it. The service dogs I've had in classrooms and other settings have been wonderful, but I generally don't like being around dogs.
lemonsharks: (cat cat cat (flynn))

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2020-05-06 02:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Same. Service dogs are generally trained. The average pet dog is significantly less-trained, and its intrinsic dog-ness can lead the average well-adjusted dog to assume that everyone loves it when they just ... don't.

(The dog office is what turned me off dogs in general, when I'd previously quite liked them and had wanted one of my own.)
ysobel: A man wielding a kitchen knife and making an adorable yelling face (rage)

[personal profile] ysobel 2020-05-06 06:51 pm (UTC)(link)
::wordless rageflail::