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AAM: Married to children
For many years, my husband has been working at a job where his direct boss is his childhood best friend. This is dysfunctional in the extreme for a lot of reasons, including but not limited to screaming matches, work calls at all hours, and the expectation my husband does work-work but also helps his boss move, put together furniture, walk his dog, pick up his food, and cover for him when he’s MIA.
I’ve come to accept that I can’t change this dynamic. My husband doesn’t see it as abnormal and enjoys the “perks” of this situation.
However, the “perks” are also destructive and creeping into our marriage and any sense of normal work conventions. He has a flexible start time that he abuses, going in as late as possible every day. Sometimes, he sleeps through or turns off his alarm and then his boss has to call to find out where he is. He doesn’t have a dress code and refuses to wear anything other than jeans, sneakers, and t-shirts. He stays at work well past when his shift is over multiple times a week because he spends so much time during the day goofing off with his boss (who then yells at him for being slow). He never gets performance reviews so assumes he’s doing great. But his boss screams at him on the regular at work and over the phone while he’s home, and he’s never had a raise beyond cost of living.
He has no concept of workplace norms or acceptable behavior. These “perks” prevent him from even considering work elsewhere. I know I have no sway with his boss and can only keep out of it as far as he’s concerned. But regarding my husband, I’m tired of having to ask him in the morning if he’s going to work today. I’m tired of trying to explain that there’s a whole world of professional clothing that isn’t a suit. I’m tired of the fear that the next straw will be the last and he’ll get fired. I’m tired of trying to explain that no other employer would put up with any of this.
I guess what I’m asking is, how do I get him to understand that this situation is so far outside the range of normal and will eventually blow up, impacting both of us? His boss is abusive and takes advantage of him. But he takes advantage of the friendship he has with his boss by going in late and wearing whatever and turning in things late. Despite being very good at what he does, if my husband’s boss died tomorrow, my husband would probably be let go and he would have difficulty finding another professional position in the same field with no advancement to show. And if he ever did work elsewhere, I think he would have a difficult time adjusting to standard workplace rules, because this situation is all he’s ever known. If for whatever reason, he loses this job, he and by extension we will be screwed because we can’t live on a single income.
If this information helps, we’re both in our late 30s. I’ve had professional positions in two different fields after college, but other than retail, this is the only job he’s ever had.
I can see why you’re aggravated and concerned.
I think it’ll help to divide all the issues here into two separate buckets: (1) things that are aggravating but ultimately don’t affect you, and (2) things that affect you or could affect you in the future.
Things that are aggravating but doesn’t sound like they really affect you:
* the expectation that your husband will help your boss with non-work projects like moving or walking his dog
* your husband’s start time/lateness
* what he wears to work
* how much time he goofs off during the day
Things that affect you or could affect you in the future:
* screaming matches that you’re stuck overhearing
* work calls at all hours
* calls that you have to answer from his boss to find out where he is
* his ability to get other work at whatever point that’s needed
* his work ethic — that’s to some extent his call, but it’s very much your business if it means you’re constantly worried about him getting fired
Things that I’m not sure how to categorize:
* unexpectedly long hours caused by goofing off — maybe not your business, but it could be if those last-minute late hours impact your plans
* no raises in years — potentially your business if it means more financial burden falls on you than it should
Let go of everything in that first bucket right away. That stuff is his business, to handle as he sees fit. (That said, it’s certainly true that his decisions in some of those areas could affect your respect for him, and if there’s a danger of that, it’s worth trying to understand his perspective better before that happens.)
The other bucket though … that’s stuff you can and should talk about.
It’s reasonable to say that you don’t want to be woken up by late-night work calls. (Then, ideally you’d let him decide how to handle that — whether it’s muting his phone or telling his boss not to call after 10 pm or whatever.) It’s reasonable to say that you’re not up for answering calls from his boss looking for him in the morning, and to stop doing that. It’s reasonable to say you’re unhappy about him canceling plans at the last minute when it could have been avoided (if in fact that’s the case). You have standing to speak up on all that.
The bigger, and harder, thing here is your worry about his ability to pull his weight financially in the long-term. Have you two ever talked about that openly? If not, I’d start there. Tell him what you’re worried about and why, and see what he says. It’s possible that some of your assumptions here are wrong (like that he’d have trouble finding another job in this field, or that he’d have trouble adjusting if he did) and he’ll have a perspective on those things that’s reassuring to hear. But if his answer is “yeah, those things are true but I like this set-up well enough that I’m willing to take that risk,” then you’ve got to move into a conversation about how you each see the role of work and financial contributions and long-term planning and risk in your marriage, and what is and isn’t reasonable to ask the other person to be okay with — and beyond that, what each of you really is okay with.
Ideally after you talk it through you’ll find there’s room for compromise in here — like you might end up deciding that this isn’t the work set-up you’d ideally want in a partner, but he’s happy with it and you can deal with it as long as he’s doing more to network in his field or asks for a raise or socks away more money (or who knows what). I’d love to be able to write “or he hears your concerns, recognizes there’s cause to be freaked out, and agrees to start looking at other professional paths” … but the truth is that might not be a very likely outcome. But opening the conversation will help you figure out what outcomes are even possible, and then you can decide how you feel about those options.
If you’ve already had that conversation and nothing has changed, then the bigger issue is: Why is he blowing off your very real concerns? Does he think you’re wrong? Is he bad at dealing with hard situations? Does he feel stuck, like he won’t be able to find another job that pays as much as this one? Or is he just prioritizing his current situation, which he likes, over your very understandable discomfort with what the future might hold?
Ideally you have some decisions to make together, if he’s willing to listen in good faith. (If that’s not happening: couples counseling, because at that point it’s not really about his job.)
I’ve come to accept that I can’t change this dynamic. My husband doesn’t see it as abnormal and enjoys the “perks” of this situation.
However, the “perks” are also destructive and creeping into our marriage and any sense of normal work conventions. He has a flexible start time that he abuses, going in as late as possible every day. Sometimes, he sleeps through or turns off his alarm and then his boss has to call to find out where he is. He doesn’t have a dress code and refuses to wear anything other than jeans, sneakers, and t-shirts. He stays at work well past when his shift is over multiple times a week because he spends so much time during the day goofing off with his boss (who then yells at him for being slow). He never gets performance reviews so assumes he’s doing great. But his boss screams at him on the regular at work and over the phone while he’s home, and he’s never had a raise beyond cost of living.
He has no concept of workplace norms or acceptable behavior. These “perks” prevent him from even considering work elsewhere. I know I have no sway with his boss and can only keep out of it as far as he’s concerned. But regarding my husband, I’m tired of having to ask him in the morning if he’s going to work today. I’m tired of trying to explain that there’s a whole world of professional clothing that isn’t a suit. I’m tired of the fear that the next straw will be the last and he’ll get fired. I’m tired of trying to explain that no other employer would put up with any of this.
I guess what I’m asking is, how do I get him to understand that this situation is so far outside the range of normal and will eventually blow up, impacting both of us? His boss is abusive and takes advantage of him. But he takes advantage of the friendship he has with his boss by going in late and wearing whatever and turning in things late. Despite being very good at what he does, if my husband’s boss died tomorrow, my husband would probably be let go and he would have difficulty finding another professional position in the same field with no advancement to show. And if he ever did work elsewhere, I think he would have a difficult time adjusting to standard workplace rules, because this situation is all he’s ever known. If for whatever reason, he loses this job, he and by extension we will be screwed because we can’t live on a single income.
If this information helps, we’re both in our late 30s. I’ve had professional positions in two different fields after college, but other than retail, this is the only job he’s ever had.
I can see why you’re aggravated and concerned.
I think it’ll help to divide all the issues here into two separate buckets: (1) things that are aggravating but ultimately don’t affect you, and (2) things that affect you or could affect you in the future.
Things that are aggravating but doesn’t sound like they really affect you:
* the expectation that your husband will help your boss with non-work projects like moving or walking his dog
* your husband’s start time/lateness
* what he wears to work
* how much time he goofs off during the day
Things that affect you or could affect you in the future:
* screaming matches that you’re stuck overhearing
* work calls at all hours
* calls that you have to answer from his boss to find out where he is
* his ability to get other work at whatever point that’s needed
* his work ethic — that’s to some extent his call, but it’s very much your business if it means you’re constantly worried about him getting fired
Things that I’m not sure how to categorize:
* unexpectedly long hours caused by goofing off — maybe not your business, but it could be if those last-minute late hours impact your plans
* no raises in years — potentially your business if it means more financial burden falls on you than it should
Let go of everything in that first bucket right away. That stuff is his business, to handle as he sees fit. (That said, it’s certainly true that his decisions in some of those areas could affect your respect for him, and if there’s a danger of that, it’s worth trying to understand his perspective better before that happens.)
The other bucket though … that’s stuff you can and should talk about.
It’s reasonable to say that you don’t want to be woken up by late-night work calls. (Then, ideally you’d let him decide how to handle that — whether it’s muting his phone or telling his boss not to call after 10 pm or whatever.) It’s reasonable to say that you’re not up for answering calls from his boss looking for him in the morning, and to stop doing that. It’s reasonable to say you’re unhappy about him canceling plans at the last minute when it could have been avoided (if in fact that’s the case). You have standing to speak up on all that.
The bigger, and harder, thing here is your worry about his ability to pull his weight financially in the long-term. Have you two ever talked about that openly? If not, I’d start there. Tell him what you’re worried about and why, and see what he says. It’s possible that some of your assumptions here are wrong (like that he’d have trouble finding another job in this field, or that he’d have trouble adjusting if he did) and he’ll have a perspective on those things that’s reassuring to hear. But if his answer is “yeah, those things are true but I like this set-up well enough that I’m willing to take that risk,” then you’ve got to move into a conversation about how you each see the role of work and financial contributions and long-term planning and risk in your marriage, and what is and isn’t reasonable to ask the other person to be okay with — and beyond that, what each of you really is okay with.
Ideally after you talk it through you’ll find there’s room for compromise in here — like you might end up deciding that this isn’t the work set-up you’d ideally want in a partner, but he’s happy with it and you can deal with it as long as he’s doing more to network in his field or asks for a raise or socks away more money (or who knows what). I’d love to be able to write “or he hears your concerns, recognizes there’s cause to be freaked out, and agrees to start looking at other professional paths” … but the truth is that might not be a very likely outcome. But opening the conversation will help you figure out what outcomes are even possible, and then you can decide how you feel about those options.
If you’ve already had that conversation and nothing has changed, then the bigger issue is: Why is he blowing off your very real concerns? Does he think you’re wrong? Is he bad at dealing with hard situations? Does he feel stuck, like he won’t be able to find another job that pays as much as this one? Or is he just prioritizing his current situation, which he likes, over your very understandable discomfort with what the future might hold?
Ideally you have some decisions to make together, if he’s willing to listen in good faith. (If that’s not happening: couples counseling, because at that point it’s not really about his job.)
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(Also, I really liked Alison's answer. "Some things you have to let go of [like, seriously, let go of the clothing, I wear jeans/sneakers to work every day], some things are a big deal, and, hmm, you say he's not listening to you? COUNSELING STAT." In Alison's very kind way.)
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Alison is much nicer than I am. It doesn't sound as though the LW's husband is capable of making that kind of judgement from actual knowledge. I doubt I'd be able to believe any reassurance on these topics, since his perspective is so skewed.
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If the thing LW prioritizes most in a partner is earning potential, yeah, she seems to have chosen poorly for a spouse. But that's on her, not on him.
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(Like, why the fuck does it matter what the husband wears to work, if he's not getting in trouble for it, and it's clean and covering the parts that need to be covered. LW needs to examine a whole bunch of their entrenched assumptions about how much influence a job should have over your life.)
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And the boss sounds like an asshole.
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That's a good point. Getting away from his boss/friend would be a really good idea if he's dealing with that.