Miss Manners: They invited me to brunch at their freezing mansion

[med_cat]

Greetings, everyone! I have been enjoying reading the entries and discussion in this community, and came upon this article today that I thought I'd share:
~~~
Link: wapo.st/4csfhDU

Dear Miss Manners:

I was invited to a brunch as the only guest. The hosts live in a 6,000-square-foot mansion, of which all of the rooms could be photographed for a slick architectural magazine.

Brunch was delicious, but the rub of the situation was that the house was 54 degrees in temperature, and it was 15 degrees outside.

I am on blood thinners and I am very cognizant of cold. When I inquired if they were having heating issues, the reply was that the house is too expensive to warm up to 68 degrees, and that they do not like large gas bills.

I left about two and a half hours later, just after the repast, with near frostbite on my fingers and toes. Would I have been remiss in telling the hosts I could not stay because the house was too cold, and I was very uncomfortable physically?

I would like to have said this before we had our meal. However, I bit my lip and suffered through the whole unpleasant situation.



Making your guests uncomfortable is, without a doubt, bad hosting.

But calling your hosts rude, setting fire to the carpet and/or leaving early are bad guesting.

So how do we get you out of there without numbing your extremities?

You could confess your entire medical history to your hosts and hope that appearing pitiful convinces them to do the right thing. But this seems to Miss Manners both demeaning and not guaranteed of success.

Better to claim not to feel well in the moment and apologize that you had to leave before the meal was served — even if doing so requires a slight numbing of your moral sensibilities.

Comments

[ashbet]

Personally, I think it would be perfectly civil to say that you have a medical condition that is affected by cold, and at least ask if they could turn the heat up in the room you’re in (or loan you a coat and some warm slippers!)

I have very little sympathy for hosts that obviously have means, but are too skinflint to ensure their guest’s comfort.

[med_cat]

I agree! There are many possibilities here:

For the guest to say, "I'm very sensitive to cold" (no additional explanation should be needed), and to ask for a blanket/slippers/coat

For the hosts to think ahead and to turn up the heat (surely a few hours of heat wouldn't have bankrupted them)

For the hosts to buy a space heater or two

etc.

[otter]

There's nothing wrong with saying "I should have brought a sweater, do you have one I may borrow?"
My family of origin kept a basket of slippers near the door for guests to borrow. Because the house was kept no warmer than 64 in winter.

[med_cat]

Absolutely! and I like the approach of your family of origin. Also, 64 degrees is not as bad as 54.

...just to add:

[med_cat]

Myself, I was amused by the second sentence of Miss Manners' reply.

("But calling your hosts rude, setting fire to the carpet and/or leaving early are bad guesting.")

...esp. the "setting fire to the carpet" idea...;)

[topaz_eyes]

Keeping a house at 54 F (12 C) with an outside temp of 15 F (-9.5 C) is risking freezing pipes. If these hosts think the gas bill is too high, wait til they get a plumbing bill for burst pipes.

Also, keeping a house too cold puts dwellers at risk for hypothermia and circulation problems. At the very least the hosts could have installed portable space heaters in the rooms they were using. LW was right to leave early.

[med_cat]

Agreed re: leaving early, and I mean, 2.5 hours is not way early, IMHO

Re: burst pipes, you bring up a good point, and one I'd not considered.

And yes, I wondered how the hosts themselves manage at that temp all winter...I mean, I could see keeping the house temp in mid-60s, but 54? no.

[lilysea]

Low house temperatures in winter = increased risk of heart attacks.

I saw an official research paper by the New Zealand government's health department about it, they quantified that there were

X heart attack deaths in New Zealand in winter

but there would be [less than X] deaths if people could afford to heat their home to the minimum safe levels.

And there are lots of places in the US that get colder than New Zealand.

[med_cat]

Very interesting, thank you! I'll have to inquire if there are statistics (local/state/national) of the incidence of MIs by month/season.

[lilysea]

Seasonal Variation in Myocardial Infarction Hospitalisations and Ischaemic Heart Disease Deaths in New Zealand

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12011316/

[med_cat]

Thanks for the article! I'll look for US studies, and see if our organization keeps any in-house stats, will let you know.

[topaz_eyes]

X heart attack deaths in New Zealand in winter

but there would be [less than X] deaths if people could afford to heat their home to the minimum safe levels.

The authors acknowledge energy poverty as a contributing factor, but the paper's analysis was limited only to the seasonality of heart attack hospitalizations and deaths in NZ cities with different climates. The authors state in the discussion that the specific role of energy poverty needs to be investigated further: Additionally, in recent years the cost of living in New Zealand has increased significantly, exacerbating energy poverty [27]. The effect of these factors on the seasonal incidence and mortality rates of MI in New Zealand is unknown.

Where I live, our winter temperatures can reach -40. Our municipality has winter home heating subsidies and grants available for our at-risk population through our utility department, but people have to sign up for them.

[lilysea]

There actually is a whole NZ gov policy paper /research paper on heating costs and heart attack deaths - I saw it in 2003 - but I couldn't find it when googling now.

It's about a 20 to 30 page document, it includes lots of de-identified anecdotes with people who they interviewed.

The paper from 2003 was interested in

a) unventilated gas heaters = asthma

b) lack of heat = heart attacks

c) the interaction between unventilated gas heaters and mould

[topaz_eyes]

That's unfortunate about not finding that policy paper. I couldn't seem to find it either, but I did find a few other studies from the UK and Europe that corroborate what NZ researchers saw.

[conuly]

If you cannot afford to heat a 6000 square foot mansion to the legally mandated minimum for rentals, you cannot afford a 6000 square foot mansion. Move somewhere cheaper.

[med_cat]

That too ;)

[oursin]

Query: were the hosts bundled up in nice warm clothes, maybe snug padded jackets? (One assumes that if they can't afford heating bills, cashmere and other fabrics historically deployed for posh warmth would be out of the question, unless maybe they thrift them?) Feel that the invites should say 'wrap up warm' as a matter of courtesy.

[med_cat]

Good question...

[ethelmay]

I used to wear thrifted cashmere sweaters (one had a big onion-shaped ink stain and cost almost nothing) as long underwear. I grew up in a big drafty house during the oil crisis - I think the thermostat was mid 60s but parts of the house were much colder, and we didn't turn on the heat at all until late in the year. (We did turn up the heat for parties, and we had fireplaces.) My skin wouldn't stand it these days.

[mrissa]

Is it culturally normal for other people on here to invite someone for a meal and then not eat for approximately an hour and a half? I suppose it's possible that they were having the kind of leisurely multi-course meal I associate with an upscale restaurant's tasting menu, but if I invite you over for brunch at 10, we are probably eating at 10:30, and if you need to leave at 12:30, I will not be surprised. (I will also not be surprised if you stay into the afternoon! But if the invitation is for brunch, it is totally normal for you to not stay on to teatime.)

This seems particularly notable because people--at least the people who are me--are more easily chilled when hungry, and also because if there is a pre-brunch step in the cold of the year, it's offering the guest a hot beverage, which is not mentioned here.

[althea_valara]

I'd say it's cultural normal for us, but we don't often do non-holiday get togethers. Holiday ones? Absolutely we arrive several hours before the meal. The host will have snacks out and we catch up while the meal is being prepared or we are waiting for catering. Usually, we spent another 60 to 90 minutes at the host's place after dinner as well.

This is the norm for us. I will say it's exhausting for me, as an introvert who doesn't get out socially much. It's a LOT of time to be "on". I can fake being extrovert but it takes a lot out of me.

I want to stress though, that we always say when the meal is actually planned to happen, so we go into the day expecting snacks and a later meal. That is part of being a good host, I think.

[mrissa]

Oh yah for a holiday sure. I assumed that one person for brunch was not a holiday, but it easily could have been that this couple didn't want a large holiday crowd or everyone was busy.

[movingfinger]

It's not normal for me! But I do have friends who say, "Come at 4:30!" and the meal is at 6. Personally, if I tell guests to arrive at a time, I have the meal timed for within fifteen minutes of that. Especially brunches; this is probably the starter meal for the day, so they are hungry!

[jenett]

Besides all the other good comments, I'm sort of struck by the lack of advance communication here! It would be totally ordinary, along with the "Come from brunch, come at 10?" or whatever, to do a) "Anything you don't eat?" and b) "Oh, by the way, we keep the house cool, you might want a layer or two." Which would then give the guest a chance to go "Wait, I have some issues with that, how cool do you mean here?" just like they could go "Love to come for brunch, but if grapefruit were on the menu, I can't have that." or whatever.

[ofearthandstars]

I can actually think of situations where ordinary people have ended up house-poor (e.g., inheriting a large space but unable to afford significant repairs that are needed for resale/relocation due to hefty taxes owed/or uninsurability that makes relocation difficult, or having means for the space and then losing significant income due to long term disability or illness). But surely, surely somewhere along the way, if you are in this situation and still inviting guests, you devise a means to signal that the space is kept chilly? Or offer a sweater when the guest lets you know they are uncomfortable?

There have been rapid and significant spikes in gas costs due to the error of relying on it as a primary fuel, particularly as the global energy economy and geopolitics in general shifts - 10 years ago the LNG industry was booming, and now it is experiencing a supply shock. I have read that in individuals in certain areas are now paying more for heating than they do their monthly mortgage. (And if you're in an older or less well-insulated home, those costs are also exacerbated). Presuming one doesn't have the capital to start with to invest in reconfiguring a space to run off a heat pump, one could get stuck in a cycle of paying out utility bills that leave one struggling to afford efficiency or wholesale replacements that would save money over time. (Though this still does not excuse leaving your guests in the cold.)

[magid]

I am missing something: if you have a 6000 sq ft home, don’t you have a number of different heating zones, so it’s not “heat the whole house to 70” (or whatever actually somewhat reasonable temp for most humans sitting around indoors)? I mean, my dad did that with my childhood home in the 70s, so while he didn’t heat the living room in the winter (cathedral ceiling with metal-framed windows on three sides (don’t get me started)), the kitchen and dining room were kept reasonably warm, while the bedrooms had less during the day, etc. That can be retro-fitted, too, and shouldn’t be that involved in a time of programmable thermostats…..

[movingfinger]

Older houses often do not have heating zones and installing the controls can be difficult if there is, say, vintage plaster, paneling, anaglypta, etc. to work with. If the people in question are in a newer 6000sqft home, the system is likely to be forced air, which is also difficult to redo (I have been told).

For myself, in a house which is kept in the mid-low 60F zone, I have gas fires in two rooms that I am most likely to use, an electric supplemental system in one area, and for guests I turn the heat up.

[jesse_the_k]

One can create heating zones with good old fashioned blankets, tarps, and other lightweight structures which limit air motion.

Thank you for teaching me the delightful anaglypta!

[raisedbymoogles]

"I was invited to brunch, but the house was freezing and also I was the only guest" is the start of a gothic horror story.

[med_cat]

...You bring up an interesting idea, and one that hasn't occurred to me.

(if you write the story, I'd be interested in reading it!)

[conuly]

You're right, that's some vampire shit.