Honesty of varying kinds

[petrea_mitchell]

Actual headline: Why Tho? My friend’s ‘honesty’ makes me never want to be around her

Dear Lizzy,

I have backed off from a friend of seven years because she is too honest and butts in and discusses my personal business. I was recently fired for an honest mistake after 43 years at my job. I chose to tell people I retired. While at a dinner party for her retirement, she announced to everyone at the table that I did not retire but in fact got fired. Dead silence. I was so humiliated and angry I couldn’t speak. I got awkward stares and wanted to just leave. She doesn’t understand why this was wrong and feels she is just honest. No apology. Am I too sensitive? By the way, I don’t miss her.

No Regrets

Dear No Regrets,

The fact that you don’t miss your former “friend” is a great indication that losing her from your life has not been a negative thing.

I don’t think you should lie, in a general sense, but there are always cases where some people might not need all the information and that’s OK too! The fact that you trusted this woman with the truth meant you considered her part of your circle of real friends and she very clearly abused that privilege.

Sometimes, people use “I’m just being honest!” as an excuse to be mean. I don’t know why your friend is the way she is, but she sounds like that type of person. Probably she is hurt. Maybe she wants attention. Usually, most behavior like this comes down to a desire to be seen by other people. For some people who struggle to get good attention, bad attention works almost as well.

But, I don’t think you overreacted. If your friend had an ethical problem with your lie, she should have spoken to you privately. Instead, she purposely humiliated you and when you pointed it out, she doubled down. There’s no need to keep a person like that in your life.

Good luck!

Lizzy

Comments

[topaz_eyes]

I was recently fired for an honest mistake after 43 years at my job.

LW was fired. Why could an employer not simply allow LW to retire as a consequence for an "honest mistake" after that length of service? Unless said "honest mistake" was an automatic firing offence; and/or caused/could have caused significant harm to other employees, clients/customers, and/or the company. I don't think LW's telling the entire story here and I think their friend knows that too.

[minoanmiss]

I dunno. I have never worked anywhere for 43 years, but this is what got me fired after four:

I was a desk secretary in an inpatient unit in a hospital. We had a class of patients called "No info" patients whose presence in the hospital we were not supposed to admit to anyone who didn't work for the hospital. This is usually for the patient's safety.

One night after visiting hours four women came to my unit asking for a particular young man who was a no-info patient. I knew the charge nurse was taking care of a patient. The grandmother of the group said, her huge eyes sheened with tears, "I just need to see my boy!"

So I let them visit him. And quite rightfully got fired. In trying to be kind I allowed myself to become the broken link in the chain of patient safety and made a decision that was above my pay grade. I've turned this into a "how I learned from a mistake at work" story that helped me get two other jobs, so all's well that ends well.

Still, if I had had a dinner party just after I was fired when I was still raw about it, I might have said, "I left that job" and I think I would have been within my rights to be cross if my friend said, "oh no she got fired and here's how!" Even though now most of a decade later I tell that story all the time.

I can envision reasons that are terrible enough that they don't deserve to be kept secret, but I don't think that means that any possible reason must be terrible enough to deserve to not be kept secret.

[syderia]

Yes, and I think there's thinking your friend should tell the truth and point-blank announcing it at your own retirement party. That feels petty and mean.

[lilysea]

I've never been fired, but I once had a boss try to put me on-track to be fired over taking sick leave when I was sick!

She wrote me up over leaving work 30 minutes early without a Doctor's note (I had sprained my ankle at work and a first aid person at my workplace had bandaged it up)

and she insisted that I get a doctor's note for any future absences, despite the fact that workplace policy was that you could have 3 days in a row of sick leave on your own say-so and you only needed a medical certificate from a doctor for day 4.

She looped in HR, and it was very clear that she was trying to lay ground work for firing me eventually. (I switched jobs before she could).

[full_metal_ox]

LW was fired. Why could an employer not simply allow LW to retire as a consequence for an "honest mistake" after that length of service?

Ah, but the “43 years” is another missing lead; LW would be nearing what used to be considered retirement age. Might the “honest mistake”, whatever that may have been, be a pretext for sacking LW (thus saving the business their pension if applicable) in favor of someone a lot younger, at a beginning wage?

[topaz_eyes]

My spouse made almost the same comment about the pension you did when I read this out to them. You're right, 43 years' service would put LW firmly in early retirement age (over 60), and they might have already reached their full pension entitlement before they got fired, depending on where they worked.

If the "honest mistake" was only a pretext, then imho LW needs to talk to an employment lawyer re the possibility of wrongful dismissal.

[dissectionist]

I once came within a hair of getting fired for telling a client that him using our services was detrimental to his mental health; I was so unaware that my bosses would freak about it, I noted in his file that I’d discussed with him. Was what I said to him the right thing to do, morally? Yes. Did my employer feel that customers should stay with us no matter how bad it was for the customers? Also yes. (My honest mistake was in thinking that they might possibly give the slightest shit about the customers’ health, and that I should see the customers as more than walking dollar signs.) The only reason I didn’t get fired was because I had several high-paying, long-term clients that may well have dropped their business if I left.

Had I been any less valuable, I would have been fired for doing something ethically correct. Businesses can be really shitty.

[minoanmiss]

(My honest mistake was in thinking that they might possibly give the slightest shit about the customers’ health, and that I should see the customers as more than walking dollar signs.)

Hahahah this was my main problem with my last job. Will commiserate more elsewhere.

[mrissa]

Of course they're not telling the whole story. We're all allowed to not tell the whole story for every single incident. Telling the whole story is often tedious as well as sometimes painful.

If it's something where the friend thought it was important for people not to interact with LW, or to take their horrible behavior into account, what is LW doing at her party? If I knew someone was fired for harassment or stealing, for example, sure, I'd correct the record for people who mentioned it in passing--but I also wouldn't invite them to my party.

[ethelmay]

I missed at first that it was at the friend's retirement party! I thought LW had a "retirement party" after being fired, and one of the friends spilled the beans about it not really being a retirement party. Actually, that might explain why it ever came up: maybe someone said, "Hey, why didn't LW have a party like this?" and LW's friend said, well, huh, since you ask...

[pauraque]

I misread that too!

[minoanmiss]

Oh I missed that as well. So Friend decided to use LW's recent misfortune as party entertainment. Ergh.

[torachan]

You sound really naive about employers.