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One column, two letters
Dear Prudence
1. Dear Prudence,
After my son turned 18 last year, I really hoped that the financial abuse my ex put me through would end. Despite being divorced for a decade, my ex would constantly call and try to weasel more money out of me to pay her outrageous expenses (she liked living the high life) and then use the kids if she didn’t get it. It was always Dad’s fault if they were not going to Disneyland. My daughter wised up to her mother’s ways and rarely has anything to do with her.
My son, however, got better at lying to me. I bought my son a car on the condition he paid for the insurance and didn’t let anyone else drive it—especially his mom. She had something like six wrecks in the last three years and lost her license. My son swore that it wouldn’t happened. Then he called me begging to get the car out of police impound. His mother got caught speeding and had enough warrants that she was immediately arrested. I told my son no. The immediate consequences of his lying was he was going to have to figure out to pay for the car himself or deal with hoofing it everywhere. He told me he has no savings after bailing out his mom from jail. He couldn’t just leave her there. I told him that was his choice to make and his consequences to deal with. Instead, he screamed about what a horrible parent I was and how he never wanted to talk to me again.
I would have left it at that but he went around to other family members, including my disabled mother, to get the money. Now there is family pressure for me to cover the debt instead.I feel like I am banging my head against the wall. This is exactly the same kind of stunt my ex pulled back in the day. I love my son but I can’t deal with this again and again like before. Help!
—Repeat Past
Dear Repeat Past,
Your son and his mother are both adults, and it’s time for them to deal with the consequences of their actions. I think it’s well within your rights to refuse any further financial assistance to either of them for the foreseeable future. Whatever is going on in their relationship sounds like a death spiral of chaos that you absolutely don’t need to be a part of. Tell any judgmental family members that you’re letting two adults handle their lives as they see fit, and that it’s no longer your job to interfere — and that none of them should feel obligated to pick up the bill either.
***********
2. Dear Prudence,
I’m the youngest of three, and have struggled to get my family to show up for me. I understand that my events aren’t as interesting, but I resented being dragged to all of their events, knowing I’d never get reciprocity. I got married when I was 33, and that was the first time my entire family showed up to an event of mine.
When my brother had the first grandkids, they were all my parents could focus on. My mother flew halfway across the country to help my brother and sister-in-law every weekend for the first six months. My parents continued to make the even longer journey when my brother moved two additional time zones away. When I had kids, my parents were older and uninterested in traveling. I received zero support, and they’ve met my kids about three times in total. Both of my siblings have met my kids once. (My youngest is 8.) Initially, my husband and I would fly home, but it was a lot of effort only for my parents to turn on the TV and divide their attention between us. Our presence seemed to annoy them so I quit visiting. My husband and I didn’t want to waste more money trying the same thing with my siblings so we never attempted to visit them.
My sister announced she was pregnant. I assumed that since she would be the last child to reproduce she would get the same short end of the stick that I got. Nope! My mom is flying out to see her before she gives birth. I get to witness her rush of excitement over the upcoming grandchild. She’s attending my sister’s baby shower despite not attending mine! I will not be attending because I’m too busy. I’m following my therapist’s advice to only show up for people who show up for me or when I really want to. Well, much like my family members all these years with my events, I don’t want to show up, and I don’t want to make the time.
In a twisted turn of events, my mom and sister (not my dad and brother) have now decided they’re interested in my life. They went from zero to 100 after I explained why I’d been so absent. Now they’re all supportive, and their schedules magically opened up. Not only do my mom and sister want to visit me, but they want to help after my husband recovers from major surgery next month. What? I don’t have the mental capacity to determine whether this new interest is sincere or an attempt to save face, but all of their behavior is ironically off-putting. I would have appreciated such grand gestures 30 years ago, but I mourned the family I never had and got over it. Besides, my in-laws and neighbors already stepped into those “village” roles, and I’m not interested in rejiggering things to cater to people who just woke up to the fact they haven’t treated me well. Plus I don’t trust them because they’ve flaked in the past.
I’ve sat with my mom’s and sister’s change in behavior for a while, and I’m sorry to say that I still feel nothing. Was it years of selfish behavior and indifference? I don’t know. But how do I deal with their new-found insistence that they come visit me and help? I just want them to … go away.
—It’s Too Late
Dear Too Late,
That’s quite an about-face from your family, and I don’t blame you for feeling resentful (or even distrustful) about it. I think you can be diplomatic to your family about how you don’t need the help that they’re offering because there’ll be “too many cooks in the kitchen,” that you “already have a system in place”, or that you’re simply not feeling up to being a good host.
I can understand the desire to hold your family at arm’s length given their track record, but I also wonder if their desire to change their behavior should still be taken as an opportunity (however belated) to reconnect, if there’s any part of you that still wants that. If not, then feel free to stop reading right now. But if there’s even a tiny part that does, I would suggest experimenting with giving your family members small, low-lift “jobs” to do (i.e. if you don’t want them to visit during your husband’s surgery, could you suggest they send a care package instead?) in order to feel helpful.
Because the annoying and deeply frustrating thing about families (especially parents) is that, as much as we want everyone to treat all members the same, people tend to subconsciously or very consciously favor the members whom they best understand and whom they can feel their most heroic, appreciated selves around. I’m not saying that as a way of excusing your parents’ favoritism, but to give you the cheat code for how most misguided parents operate: They want to feel appreciated, and if they don’t know what your deal is or even remotely like they’re not needed, they’re going to get defensive or back away. It might help to think of them as toddlers trying to “cook” Mom and Dad a breakfast in bed, and making a huge mess of the kitchen. It’s not really what you want or need, but they’re trying, aren’t they?
1. Dear Prudence,
After my son turned 18 last year, I really hoped that the financial abuse my ex put me through would end. Despite being divorced for a decade, my ex would constantly call and try to weasel more money out of me to pay her outrageous expenses (she liked living the high life) and then use the kids if she didn’t get it. It was always Dad’s fault if they were not going to Disneyland. My daughter wised up to her mother’s ways and rarely has anything to do with her.
My son, however, got better at lying to me. I bought my son a car on the condition he paid for the insurance and didn’t let anyone else drive it—especially his mom. She had something like six wrecks in the last three years and lost her license. My son swore that it wouldn’t happened. Then he called me begging to get the car out of police impound. His mother got caught speeding and had enough warrants that she was immediately arrested. I told my son no. The immediate consequences of his lying was he was going to have to figure out to pay for the car himself or deal with hoofing it everywhere. He told me he has no savings after bailing out his mom from jail. He couldn’t just leave her there. I told him that was his choice to make and his consequences to deal with. Instead, he screamed about what a horrible parent I was and how he never wanted to talk to me again.
I would have left it at that but he went around to other family members, including my disabled mother, to get the money. Now there is family pressure for me to cover the debt instead.I feel like I am banging my head against the wall. This is exactly the same kind of stunt my ex pulled back in the day. I love my son but I can’t deal with this again and again like before. Help!
—Repeat Past
Dear Repeat Past,
Your son and his mother are both adults, and it’s time for them to deal with the consequences of their actions. I think it’s well within your rights to refuse any further financial assistance to either of them for the foreseeable future. Whatever is going on in their relationship sounds like a death spiral of chaos that you absolutely don’t need to be a part of. Tell any judgmental family members that you’re letting two adults handle their lives as they see fit, and that it’s no longer your job to interfere — and that none of them should feel obligated to pick up the bill either.
2. Dear Prudence,
I’m the youngest of three, and have struggled to get my family to show up for me. I understand that my events aren’t as interesting, but I resented being dragged to all of their events, knowing I’d never get reciprocity. I got married when I was 33, and that was the first time my entire family showed up to an event of mine.
When my brother had the first grandkids, they were all my parents could focus on. My mother flew halfway across the country to help my brother and sister-in-law every weekend for the first six months. My parents continued to make the even longer journey when my brother moved two additional time zones away. When I had kids, my parents were older and uninterested in traveling. I received zero support, and they’ve met my kids about three times in total. Both of my siblings have met my kids once. (My youngest is 8.) Initially, my husband and I would fly home, but it was a lot of effort only for my parents to turn on the TV and divide their attention between us. Our presence seemed to annoy them so I quit visiting. My husband and I didn’t want to waste more money trying the same thing with my siblings so we never attempted to visit them.
My sister announced she was pregnant. I assumed that since she would be the last child to reproduce she would get the same short end of the stick that I got. Nope! My mom is flying out to see her before she gives birth. I get to witness her rush of excitement over the upcoming grandchild. She’s attending my sister’s baby shower despite not attending mine! I will not be attending because I’m too busy. I’m following my therapist’s advice to only show up for people who show up for me or when I really want to. Well, much like my family members all these years with my events, I don’t want to show up, and I don’t want to make the time.
In a twisted turn of events, my mom and sister (not my dad and brother) have now decided they’re interested in my life. They went from zero to 100 after I explained why I’d been so absent. Now they’re all supportive, and their schedules magically opened up. Not only do my mom and sister want to visit me, but they want to help after my husband recovers from major surgery next month. What? I don’t have the mental capacity to determine whether this new interest is sincere or an attempt to save face, but all of their behavior is ironically off-putting. I would have appreciated such grand gestures 30 years ago, but I mourned the family I never had and got over it. Besides, my in-laws and neighbors already stepped into those “village” roles, and I’m not interested in rejiggering things to cater to people who just woke up to the fact they haven’t treated me well. Plus I don’t trust them because they’ve flaked in the past.
I’ve sat with my mom’s and sister’s change in behavior for a while, and I’m sorry to say that I still feel nothing. Was it years of selfish behavior and indifference? I don’t know. But how do I deal with their new-found insistence that they come visit me and help? I just want them to … go away.
—It’s Too Late
Dear Too Late,
That’s quite an about-face from your family, and I don’t blame you for feeling resentful (or even distrustful) about it. I think you can be diplomatic to your family about how you don’t need the help that they’re offering because there’ll be “too many cooks in the kitchen,” that you “already have a system in place”, or that you’re simply not feeling up to being a good host.
I can understand the desire to hold your family at arm’s length given their track record, but I also wonder if their desire to change their behavior should still be taken as an opportunity (however belated) to reconnect, if there’s any part of you that still wants that. If not, then feel free to stop reading right now. But if there’s even a tiny part that does, I would suggest experimenting with giving your family members small, low-lift “jobs” to do (i.e. if you don’t want them to visit during your husband’s surgery, could you suggest they send a care package instead?) in order to feel helpful.
Because the annoying and deeply frustrating thing about families (especially parents) is that, as much as we want everyone to treat all members the same, people tend to subconsciously or very consciously favor the members whom they best understand and whom they can feel their most heroic, appreciated selves around. I’m not saying that as a way of excusing your parents’ favoritism, but to give you the cheat code for how most misguided parents operate: They want to feel appreciated, and if they don’t know what your deal is or even remotely like they’re not needed, they’re going to get defensive or back away. It might help to think of them as toddlers trying to “cook” Mom and Dad a breakfast in bed, and making a huge mess of the kitchen. It’s not really what you want or need, but they’re trying, aren’t they?
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2. If LW does want to reconnect, I wouldn't even advise those small jobs Prudence suggests but something even smaller - like, spend a few months, see if they consistently respond to texts. (They don't have to be big ticket texts. My family has a text chain where we send each other pet pics. Because our pets are adorable.)
These people have spent the past 4+ decade treating LW as the unfavorite. Even the siblings are fully responsible by now for their own behavior, so there is a lot of baby steps to make up before they can even be on the "teeny-weeny tasks" trust list.
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But also...I think it would benefit LW1 to give himself a good hard look in the mirror and see whether he was setting his child up for success or failure. Because yeah, 18 is a legal adult, but..."if you make even one mistake you're fucked" is not the message I'm giving the 18yo in my life.
OF COURSE 18 went and asked the rest of his relatives for the money to GET HIS LITERAL MOTHER OUT OF JAIL AND GET THEM BOTH RELIABLE TRANSPORTATION. It's okay if not every single person has that reaction, but also it is a totally predictable reaction. It's not a "stunt" that he has "pulled." It's a vulnerable new adult attempting to use the resources he has to keep his life from spiraling. And maybe he has to learn that his mom will drag him down into spirals indefinitely if he lets her...but if he learns that his dad doesn't give a shit along the way, that doesn't actually make his dad the good parent, it leaves him with no good parents.
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We don't even know enough about Son to know if he could say no to Ex. If he lives in her house, letting her use the car might be a condition of his time at home. Also, if LW is at all a reliable narrator, then there's a lot more going on with Ex than just a bad divorce: she's a reckless driver at best (at worse a substance abuser), she lost her license, she was arrested. If the kids were raised in this household, and Son lived with this as his custodial parent from the time he was eight, there's something more going on.
If LW wanted to repair his relationship with Son there's things he could do (eg. give the son the money, but with the condition that they find a remote-friendly family therapist or counselor for the two of them), but I don't get the sense that he cares that much.
(we also don't know how vital the car is; in most of the US, you need a car to have a job.)
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I can understand not wanting to subsidize the (awful) mother, but this is a very harsh punishment for the still-teenage son, ESPECIALLY if he's still living at home :/
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A family therapist for father and son would be an excellent idea. If sister can give perspective without emotional diatribes against mom, she could be helpful in shifting his perspective, too.
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Yeah, exactly. It feels like LW's seeing the son's behaviour as a continuation of his mum's - "Son got better at lying to me" - when it's vastly more likely he's a victim of his mother's. The kid does need some reliable help imo, even if he fucked up here, especially given the wrecks and loss of licence as he was growing up - it doesn't sound like a stable situation.
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there's got to be something missing here, right? An estrangement? The family hates LW's partner? They live in Antarctica?
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I mean, I don't think it's that strange if LW lives far away from the parents and siblings - but yeah, though LW doesn't actually use that word and might never choose to describe this situation that way, it does look like they're semi-estranged from their family and who can blame them?
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I kind of feel like this letter might be the inverse of "I have three adult children who I love very much, but my youngest pulled away in adulthood. They came to visit us a few times after their marriage but they and their spouse seemed uncomfortable, so we didn't want to push them to come more often after they stopped suggesting it, and they've never invited us to theirs since then - not even when they had their first child! They don't visit or invite their siblings either, even though the rest of us are close. We've barely even met their kids. We've tried to respect their boundaries and back off, but recently they told us that they felt like we were choosing to exclude them, so we've been trying to proactively reach out with offers and invitations - and now they say that this is 'off-putting' and 'insincere'. What can we do?"
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They're not totally estranged from LW, so if they really, sincerely want to build a relationship with her then they need to do it at her pace and on her terms, even if those terms are "Look, the time for grand gestures is long since over, but I guess we can try a twice weekly phone call and see how we feel in a year or two".
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Like. It's entirely possible they're horrible people and LW is completely in the right here. But it really sounds like the family is just trying to give LW what they say they want, except the only thing LW actually wants is for them to confirm they're horrible people.
The only concrete thing that seems to have caused LW to pull back contact is that they visited and it was a lot of trouble and her parents had the TV on and the visit "seemed to annoy them". Could be an ongoing sign of them always ignoring LW! But as someone who has relatives visit regularly who literally want to do nothing on the visit but watch cable TV reality shows, which is also all that happens when we visit them unless we make active plans to do other things without them, this is not necessarily a sign they didn't want to be visited as much as just a sign of expectations mismatch.
If LW comes from a family where "I got the impression my visits annoyed them so I just stopped visiting even though I never said anything to them about why" is normal behavior, no wonder nobody is visiting them!
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*Actually* showing up without confirmation they're needed would be incredibly awful of course. But there's no evidence they did that, or that LW thinks they would. LW says they are being "insistent" about it but it's really hard to say what they mean by that. Especially since apparently one of the issues LW has had with them previously is that they didn't seem enthusiastic enough about spending time with her. I guess they need to offer to help in a way that isn't "insistent" but also doesn't leave any room for LW to decide they aren't engaged enough?
Like LW absolutely is not obligated to let them come, and shouldn't, because it sounds like they don't want that. But contrast between the language LW is using to make them seem unreasonable vs. the actual things LW is saying they have done stands out to me.
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2. I sympathize, LW. The only reason my parents visited me when I moved out here, was because my dad loved driving cross-country. When he died my mom never visited again. I think it's worth asking directly why mom and sister made their about-face after so many decades of nothing. It sounds like LW's sister lives nearby, so there might be other reasons they want to reconnect besides a change in heart. (Babysitting comes to mind, eg if LW works from home.) They have to prove to you they are willing to make the effort here.
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Especially if he’s living at home, it might have been difficult to stop her from doing it, and it only takes one time to get into an accident or get pulled over.
I feel like the father is blaming his teenage son about his ex’s behavior, and I feel like his jaundiced view of his ex is somewhat unfairly bleeding over onto his child.
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LW believes that son is emulating his ex. Is LW's view jaundiced, or realistic? And yes this is a harsh lesson for the son, now that's he's in debt to other relatives because of his mother. Hopefully, having to pay back those relatives is the wakeup call for son to realize that his mother caused all this--and to start holding her responsible.
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Maybe--except the other parent then went and proved she was the worst. People who brush off the advice of someone who's already lived the experience once, sometimes end up needing to learn the hard way. (I just hope mom doesn't try to jump bail.)
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