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Dear Captain,
Like 12 years ago, I (she/her) met a guy (he/him) online dating. He was perfect on paper and I felt sparks, which isn’t very common for me. Due to some mental health stuff he was very open about, he was super flaky. We’d get together a few times, then he would disappear for months. We ended up in that cycle for a while – having a great time for a bit before extended periods of silence. He was always kind, gentle, and non-judgmental and was doing his best. I ended up feeling very strongly connected to him, in a way that I haven’t with most other people.
In late 2015, he discovered that a) a different mental health diagnosis better fit his symptoms, and b) he had late-stage cancer and would be starting aggressive treatment. Things were not smooth sailing, cancer-wise. In summer 2016, he got in touch late in the evening and said he needed some support. I headed over to his neighbourhood and we went for a walk and talked for hours. Things got deep and we both shared a lot. There was some vodka (both of us) and some drugs (him) involved. He was waiting for some test results and expected them to be bad. We ended up in a small park in the middle of the night and things got a bit mutually flirty. And then the heavens opened up and we were caught in a sudden, intense rainstorm. Captain, it was the most romantic thing that has ever happened to me. Anyway, we both (him first) expressed interest in touching, made out under a bridge, then went back to his place and naked fun ensued.
A day or two later, I invited him to mine for more no-strings-attached fun. (Bad idea, since I had caught feelings). He enthusiastically agreed, but cancelled before we met up, saying he wasn’t really up to being around people. I assumed he got the test results back and his fears had been confirmed. This time, the silence lasted over three years. I reached out every few months, but never got a response. It broke my heart. I started to wonder if he had cared about me at all. So I stopped reaching out and put him out of my mind. About a year ago, I looked online to see if he was even still alive. I found an obituary, but it was for his girlfriend, who had died unexpectedly a few months prior. I left that man alone.
Then a few days ago, after a tough few weeks – and a dream in which I hit it off with, then got ghosted by Jason Mantzoukas – I was cycling past where he used to live, and got all up in my feelings. I went back to that park, cried, and sat on the grass until my foot got numb and it started to get cold. There’s not much to find online, but I don’t see an obituary. I found a picture that I think is relatively recent and he looks good. Like, lookin’ good, but also looking healthy.
So. Where does casually* reaching out fall on a scale from 1 to This is Bad News Bears and Everyone Knows It But Me? *Saying I was randomly thinking about him recently and asking how he’s doing. No Feelingsbombs.
I know that, usually, when someone stops talking to you, they don’t want to. Is it worth considering he might be too embarrassed about how things went down to reach out? Is there a legitimate possibility that things could be different now, if he is cancer-free and his mental health is mostly under control? Or am I deluding myself because of strong feelings and an idealized relationship that I’ve imagined?
Unbreak My Heart
Dear Unbreak My Heart,
Oh noooooooooooooooooooo. ❤
Hi, it’s me, guest Curator-At-Large for the International Shitshow Museum. I’ve reviewed your application for inclusion in our traveling exhibit titled “Did You Break My Heart Or Did I Do It Myself? Studies In Wishful Thinking” and before I deliver the final verdict I’d like to invite you to view a short piece from my personal archives.
Once upon a time in my college teaching days, a student asked me to greenlight a 50-page shooting script for his final film in my first-semester production course. His was a sweeping, epic tale with 12+ speaking roles set across multiple time periods and multiple locations in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs. His crew consisted of himself, and he planned to shoot the whole thing in two days. To give you sense of scope, it was a class for beginners, the assignment was to make a five-minute film with a crew of 3-4 classmates to cover camera, lights, sound, art department, and production with equipment that could be checked out for a max of three days. The industry default assumes that one page of screenplay = roughly one minute of screen time, and exceptions usually translate to way more screen time (and production time) per page. Just search for “dream ballet” at this link and you’ll understand.
By this point in the semester, the project had gone through several rounds of notes and revisions where instructors and peers gently and not-so-gently encouraged him to trim the story down. Perhaps he could extract some key scenes that could be realistically shot now as proof of concept for a longer piece later? Maybe something that took place in a single time period and required just one or two locations? The student was having exactly none of it. He was going to do it his way or no way, and we could either greenlight him (by giving him the approval paperwork to check out equipment) or not.
My co-instructor was adamant that we should not approve the project in its current form. The student needed to learn that the ability to stick to a brief was part of being a professional, and that it was necessary to kill some darlings in the name of getting things done. My counter-argument was twofold:
1) This wasn’t “the industry,” and we weren’t the studio or the clients. As teachers, we could enforce a few safety protocols and make it clear that we’d only screen X minutes of any project during class time and base our grading on that excerpt, but the students were the sole investors in and authors of their work, and they had final say about what they made.
2) More importantly, there’s no teacher like experience. If you don’t believe me that trying to shoot a 50-page period piece in two days with a crew of one is a bad idea, and you’ve successfully talked 12 actors into showing up to the 9 locations where you’re attempting this Herzogian feat, then who am I to stand in your way? Either your harsh lessons will meet you later, in the editing room, without me needing to say another word about it, or I will get to witness a miracle. Here’s your paperwork, try to have fun out there.
All this to say: You are probably correct that “Hey, are you still in the old neighborhood? Want to grab a drink sometime and catch up?” will probably strike a more believable –and vastly less worrisome– faux-casual note than “Hark! I was crying in the park we used to make out in, and then Jason Mantzoukas appeared to me in a dream and I had a sudden, unshakeable compulsion to stop lurking on your socials and actually DM you! I saw that your girlfriend’s dead, so does that mean you’re single?”
The key word in that paragraph was “faux.” This was never, ever casual for you, and even now you are theorizing stuff like “what if he’s too embarrassed about how he left things last time to reach out” as a way to avoid dealing with the reality that this “flaky,” inconstant man is actually incredibly consistent in his commitment to not playing a consistent role in your life. On review of the data:
“…he would disappear for months…”
“…extended periods of silence…”
“…cancelled before we met up…”
“…the silence lasted over three years…”
“…I reached out every few months, but never got a response….”
“…I looked online to see if he was even still alive…”
I’m so very sorry for whatever you’re going through that left you crying in the park where you once kissed in the rain. I’m sorry that you were willing to settle for breadcrumbs from someone who wasn’t really present for you even back when you were sorta maybe actually dating him. I’m sorry that the memory of someone who used a cancer scare to draw you into a one-night stand, flatly declined follow-up stands, and then ghosted you for the better part of a decade still has such a hold on you. I’m incredibly sorry that when your subconscious went hunting for love’s last known address, the closest thing it could find was hell’s A.I. generated rebound boyfriend, Maximum Derek. That was not what we call a good sign, like, buddy, even your subconscious is warning you not to get your hopes up here! You deserve so much better than this from love, which is not to say that you deserve a happy ending with this particular man. My unambiguous and unfiltered advice is to continue leaving him alone for the rest of time and redirect any and all efforts into other areas of your life, like therapy, or building strong friendships, or mitigating climate change. This man is not the problem or the solution to anything, he’s just a distraction, or a signpost that’s pointing you toward something else you need.
In the meantime: Yes, you are deluding yourself. Yes, you are idealizing this “relationship” in the same letter where you describe what actually went down with astonishing self-awareness, to the point that it makes me a little bit worried about you and not a zero amount of worried about him. Making a messy student film because you were overly ambitious has few consequences to anyone but yourself, whereas it’s actually deeply distressing to cut off contact with someone and realize that they’re still chasing you across time and space like Pepé le Peu. If I thought that reaching out one last time and hearing a decisive no would put this to bed, I’d tell you to rip the band-aid off already. But it took three years of total silence from him to shake you last time, then six more years went by, and you’re still this overly invested in whether this guy might be the love of your life? That does not make me feel confident that you would be able to accept his answer (or silence) any better this time. That said, it’s very good that you asked for help! You did that because you already know the right answer, and my help is that I want you to avoid upsetting him and hurting yourself, ergo, please keep leaving that man alone and go deal with whatever shit is making this seem like a good idea. Please.
If you, yourself, me, and your inner Jason Mantzoukas can’t convince you that opening this guy up to another round of unwanted pursuit and opening yourself up to another round of rejection is a bad idea, then I guess you’ll just have to reach out to him and see if he ghosts you even harder this time. Maybe you’ll be lucky, and he’ll give you a “no thanks” so clear and unambiguous that you’ll believe him the first time. Or maybe you’ll catch him in a vulnerable, horny moment and he’ll dick around with your heart for a little while first. If I’m wrong about all of it, don’t forget to invite me to the wedding. I’ll leave a spot open for you in the Running With/Toward Scissors display just in case.
https://captainawkward.com/2024/05/16/1429-is-this-an-exception-to-the-rule-or-am-i-fooling-myself/
Like 12 years ago, I (she/her) met a guy (he/him) online dating. He was perfect on paper and I felt sparks, which isn’t very common for me. Due to some mental health stuff he was very open about, he was super flaky. We’d get together a few times, then he would disappear for months. We ended up in that cycle for a while – having a great time for a bit before extended periods of silence. He was always kind, gentle, and non-judgmental and was doing his best. I ended up feeling very strongly connected to him, in a way that I haven’t with most other people.
In late 2015, he discovered that a) a different mental health diagnosis better fit his symptoms, and b) he had late-stage cancer and would be starting aggressive treatment. Things were not smooth sailing, cancer-wise. In summer 2016, he got in touch late in the evening and said he needed some support. I headed over to his neighbourhood and we went for a walk and talked for hours. Things got deep and we both shared a lot. There was some vodka (both of us) and some drugs (him) involved. He was waiting for some test results and expected them to be bad. We ended up in a small park in the middle of the night and things got a bit mutually flirty. And then the heavens opened up and we were caught in a sudden, intense rainstorm. Captain, it was the most romantic thing that has ever happened to me. Anyway, we both (him first) expressed interest in touching, made out under a bridge, then went back to his place and naked fun ensued.
A day or two later, I invited him to mine for more no-strings-attached fun. (Bad idea, since I had caught feelings). He enthusiastically agreed, but cancelled before we met up, saying he wasn’t really up to being around people. I assumed he got the test results back and his fears had been confirmed. This time, the silence lasted over three years. I reached out every few months, but never got a response. It broke my heart. I started to wonder if he had cared about me at all. So I stopped reaching out and put him out of my mind. About a year ago, I looked online to see if he was even still alive. I found an obituary, but it was for his girlfriend, who had died unexpectedly a few months prior. I left that man alone.
Then a few days ago, after a tough few weeks – and a dream in which I hit it off with, then got ghosted by Jason Mantzoukas – I was cycling past where he used to live, and got all up in my feelings. I went back to that park, cried, and sat on the grass until my foot got numb and it started to get cold. There’s not much to find online, but I don’t see an obituary. I found a picture that I think is relatively recent and he looks good. Like, lookin’ good, but also looking healthy.
So. Where does casually* reaching out fall on a scale from 1 to This is Bad News Bears and Everyone Knows It But Me? *Saying I was randomly thinking about him recently and asking how he’s doing. No Feelingsbombs.
I know that, usually, when someone stops talking to you, they don’t want to. Is it worth considering he might be too embarrassed about how things went down to reach out? Is there a legitimate possibility that things could be different now, if he is cancer-free and his mental health is mostly under control? Or am I deluding myself because of strong feelings and an idealized relationship that I’ve imagined?
Unbreak My Heart
Dear Unbreak My Heart,
Oh noooooooooooooooooooo. ❤
Hi, it’s me, guest Curator-At-Large for the International Shitshow Museum. I’ve reviewed your application for inclusion in our traveling exhibit titled “Did You Break My Heart Or Did I Do It Myself? Studies In Wishful Thinking” and before I deliver the final verdict I’d like to invite you to view a short piece from my personal archives.
Once upon a time in my college teaching days, a student asked me to greenlight a 50-page shooting script for his final film in my first-semester production course. His was a sweeping, epic tale with 12+ speaking roles set across multiple time periods and multiple locations in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs. His crew consisted of himself, and he planned to shoot the whole thing in two days. To give you sense of scope, it was a class for beginners, the assignment was to make a five-minute film with a crew of 3-4 classmates to cover camera, lights, sound, art department, and production with equipment that could be checked out for a max of three days. The industry default assumes that one page of screenplay = roughly one minute of screen time, and exceptions usually translate to way more screen time (and production time) per page. Just search for “dream ballet” at this link and you’ll understand.
By this point in the semester, the project had gone through several rounds of notes and revisions where instructors and peers gently and not-so-gently encouraged him to trim the story down. Perhaps he could extract some key scenes that could be realistically shot now as proof of concept for a longer piece later? Maybe something that took place in a single time period and required just one or two locations? The student was having exactly none of it. He was going to do it his way or no way, and we could either greenlight him (by giving him the approval paperwork to check out equipment) or not.
My co-instructor was adamant that we should not approve the project in its current form. The student needed to learn that the ability to stick to a brief was part of being a professional, and that it was necessary to kill some darlings in the name of getting things done. My counter-argument was twofold:
1) This wasn’t “the industry,” and we weren’t the studio or the clients. As teachers, we could enforce a few safety protocols and make it clear that we’d only screen X minutes of any project during class time and base our grading on that excerpt, but the students were the sole investors in and authors of their work, and they had final say about what they made.
2) More importantly, there’s no teacher like experience. If you don’t believe me that trying to shoot a 50-page period piece in two days with a crew of one is a bad idea, and you’ve successfully talked 12 actors into showing up to the 9 locations where you’re attempting this Herzogian feat, then who am I to stand in your way? Either your harsh lessons will meet you later, in the editing room, without me needing to say another word about it, or I will get to witness a miracle. Here’s your paperwork, try to have fun out there.
All this to say: You are probably correct that “Hey, are you still in the old neighborhood? Want to grab a drink sometime and catch up?” will probably strike a more believable –and vastly less worrisome– faux-casual note than “Hark! I was crying in the park we used to make out in, and then Jason Mantzoukas appeared to me in a dream and I had a sudden, unshakeable compulsion to stop lurking on your socials and actually DM you! I saw that your girlfriend’s dead, so does that mean you’re single?”
The key word in that paragraph was “faux.” This was never, ever casual for you, and even now you are theorizing stuff like “what if he’s too embarrassed about how he left things last time to reach out” as a way to avoid dealing with the reality that this “flaky,” inconstant man is actually incredibly consistent in his commitment to not playing a consistent role in your life. On review of the data:
“…he would disappear for months…”
“…extended periods of silence…”
“…cancelled before we met up…”
“…the silence lasted over three years…”
“…I reached out every few months, but never got a response….”
“…I looked online to see if he was even still alive…”
I’m so very sorry for whatever you’re going through that left you crying in the park where you once kissed in the rain. I’m sorry that you were willing to settle for breadcrumbs from someone who wasn’t really present for you even back when you were sorta maybe actually dating him. I’m sorry that the memory of someone who used a cancer scare to draw you into a one-night stand, flatly declined follow-up stands, and then ghosted you for the better part of a decade still has such a hold on you. I’m incredibly sorry that when your subconscious went hunting for love’s last known address, the closest thing it could find was hell’s A.I. generated rebound boyfriend, Maximum Derek. That was not what we call a good sign, like, buddy, even your subconscious is warning you not to get your hopes up here! You deserve so much better than this from love, which is not to say that you deserve a happy ending with this particular man. My unambiguous and unfiltered advice is to continue leaving him alone for the rest of time and redirect any and all efforts into other areas of your life, like therapy, or building strong friendships, or mitigating climate change. This man is not the problem or the solution to anything, he’s just a distraction, or a signpost that’s pointing you toward something else you need.
In the meantime: Yes, you are deluding yourself. Yes, you are idealizing this “relationship” in the same letter where you describe what actually went down with astonishing self-awareness, to the point that it makes me a little bit worried about you and not a zero amount of worried about him. Making a messy student film because you were overly ambitious has few consequences to anyone but yourself, whereas it’s actually deeply distressing to cut off contact with someone and realize that they’re still chasing you across time and space like Pepé le Peu. If I thought that reaching out one last time and hearing a decisive no would put this to bed, I’d tell you to rip the band-aid off already. But it took three years of total silence from him to shake you last time, then six more years went by, and you’re still this overly invested in whether this guy might be the love of your life? That does not make me feel confident that you would be able to accept his answer (or silence) any better this time. That said, it’s very good that you asked for help! You did that because you already know the right answer, and my help is that I want you to avoid upsetting him and hurting yourself, ergo, please keep leaving that man alone and go deal with whatever shit is making this seem like a good idea. Please.
If you, yourself, me, and your inner Jason Mantzoukas can’t convince you that opening this guy up to another round of unwanted pursuit and opening yourself up to another round of rejection is a bad idea, then I guess you’ll just have to reach out to him and see if he ghosts you even harder this time. Maybe you’ll be lucky, and he’ll give you a “no thanks” so clear and unambiguous that you’ll believe him the first time. Or maybe you’ll catch him in a vulnerable, horny moment and he’ll dick around with your heart for a little while first. If I’m wrong about all of it, don’t forget to invite me to the wedding. I’ll leave a spot open for you in the Running With/Toward Scissors display just in case.
https://captainawkward.com/2024/05/16/1429-is-this-an-exception-to-the-rule-or-am-i-fooling-myself/
no subject
I don't know what's up with this dude and his flakiness and his mental illness and his cancer. I hope he doesn't have any idea that LW is this hung up on him and if that's the case I wish him only the best. However, what I do know is that he's not nearly as into LW as she apparently is into him, and he never ever will be. LW needs to have moved on probably three days after she met him.
no subject
Look I know that people feeling isolated and without attachments tend to attach hard to their few connections but OH MY GOD BECKY NO.
I want to shake LW. Really hard.
And then I want to shake Cap Awkward's hand, because that is GOOD ADVICE. Take the advice, LW! Take the advice!
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Yeah, LW, that right there is a loud "no, I'm not interested".
no subject
1) LW has been tracking him (online), knows the full name of the person he was dating in the past, and looked her up as well, or
2) Ex-Date and his girlfriend were so serious and so long-term that he’s mentioned in the obituary by full name as a survivor of hers (as in “[Girlfriend name] is survived by her parents, John and Jane Doe, her brother Jack Doe, and her significant other Jude Doe”). I’ve never seen a family include casual boy/girlfriends in obituaries, only long-term partners that they consider family.
It’s entirely possible it’s #1, but if it’s #2, that’s strong support that this relationship was very serious.
It’s also possible that the obit was posted on a site that allows comments and Ex-Date posted a comment with his full name and identified himself as her boyfriend, but those comments usually aren’t indexed by search engines (just as comment sections in general aren’t), so I think that one is very unlikely.
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I am so sad for LW and I hope this letter is the kick she needed to bounce this guy out of her inner life, but also
I feel you, LW. I've never had that dream, but I could absolutely seem my subconscious going there.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtHq6SVOXEk
(Yes, it’s a nakedly anguished and overwrought (as well as autobiographical) heartbreak song. Yes, the narrator is still miserably smitten. Yes, he’s still shadowing his beloved. Yes, every girl named Reneé in a certain generational bracket suffered collateral playground damage from this song. But he accepts that it’s over and Wants His Beloved To Be Happy.)
no subject