Two letters with dogs

[conuly]

1. Dear Prudence,

When I was a child I was brutally attacked by a dog. It left permanent scars on my body and on my psyche. I have been in therapy but that is not a cure-all. I no longer have sobbing fits if I see a dog, but I am still phobic about them. I cross the street if I see one and don’t go to people’s houses if they have one. I find it easier to lie and say I have allergies because if I tell people the truth, they quiz me or try to prove their dogs are the exception. In college my roommate, knowing my past, dropped a puppy in my lap and I had a panic attack.

I am married to a great man and pregnant with a little boy. He grew up with dogs, and his mother and sister do not accept our refusal to get one despite knowing my past. I have overheard my mother-in-law calling me “vindictive” and “selfish” for denying my husband a dog. My sister has told me that I need to “process my trauma.” I haven’t told my husband about these comments yet. I don’t know if I should because he will read the riot act to them and refuse to go over for the holidays. He wants to protect me but I know they will put it on me.

I am stressed at work, stressed over the baby, and sick of this dog issue. How do I handle these people? What can I say to them to get them to understand?

What a monstrous failure to produce empathy on your in-laws’ parts! I’m so sorry that you’ve so often met this response when you’ve tried to explain that you just can’t be around dogs, and that other people have delighted in pushing past your boundaries and making you feel guilty for having residual trauma from a highly significant violent attack in your childhood. The idea that you can simply “process” your trauma away—that it’s merely a matter of feeding input into a machine until it’s gone—is a ridiculous one, and it suggests that your sister-in-law is willfully misunderstanding what it means to experience trauma. You’re able to manage your trauma such that you can live in the world and see dogs from a distance, and that’s no small feat. I’m glad to hear that you know your husband will immediately take your side, and while I know you fear being blamed if you tell him, I think it’s time. Let him help you draw this boundary, and make it clear to his mother and sister that they are not, in fact, “helping” him by trying to make you feel guilty.

Trying to get your in-laws to “understand” shouldn’t be your goal, I think, because they already know that you suffered a terrible attack as a child and their response has been to call you selfish. They understand plenty. They just don’t care. The real work should be in communicating your limits to them as a couple—namely, that if they try to revisit the issue again, your conversation with them will be over, and you’ll walk away.

Link

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2. Dear Care and Feeding,

My new neighbor started off our first interaction in June on a very rude note, and now she’s about to be part of the kids’ August camp carpool list, and I feel like I need an apology and an explanation before we drive each other’s kids. I haven’t mentioned this to the other moms in the neighborhood, but I will have to bring it up if I want to find someone to cover her spot.

What happened: We have a friendly, loving, high-energy golden retriever. He’s just out of the puppy stage, so he’s just as energetic but doesn’t know his own size. He’s never hurt anyone, he’s just very excitable. I was walking him through the neighborhood when he slipped off his leash and ran up to her, giving face kisses and wanting to be petted. I assured her that she was friendly, but she replied “I’m not” and shoved him off of her, hard, at me, and basically threw herself into her front door. We haven’t spoken since, and I’m worried if she’s like this with dogs, she’s like this with kids. I also would like an apology. How do I start this, or at least get her out of this group where she has access to my kid, if she is like this?

—Kid and Dog Mom

Dear Kid and Dog Mom,

There are plenty of people who don’t like dogs and are capable of treating children with respect. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that a person who is unkind to dogs would do the same with children. Dog lovers tend to forget that not everyone has the same affinity for pups that they do (“face kisses” is a telling way of referring to getting unexpected animal saliva on one’s face). For all you know, this woman could be afraid of dogs, she may have even been attacked by one in the past. Her reaction to your dog doesn’t guarantee anything with regards to how she’d behave with your child. Simply put, it’s not fair to resent this woman for not liking dogs.

However, you do still need to clear the air with her before the carpooling. Let her know that you all may have gotten off to a rough start and that you’d like to properly introduce yourself, as your kids are supposed to be riding together. Give her a chance to show you who she is. If she’s truly rude and nasty, then make arrangements to swap your car pool days so you don’t have to drive each other’s children. If she’s a pleasant enough person who just doesn’t like dogs, try your best to look past that. Dogs simply aren’t for everyone, regardless of how sweet and friendly yours may seem to you.

Link

Comments

[ioplokon]

I'm really scared of dogs & the only thing that has any hope of working is saying, "and dogs are so perceptive, you know... they pick up on it & it stresses the dog out, which isn't fun. So it's better if we keep our distance" - like basically make it all about the dogs feelings & not mine bc the dog person will have more empathy for the dog than for me.

Re #2... I agree with the advice, but also LW was rude first. Like, YOU are responsible for your dog when you are walking it. If it gets off its leash and rushes someone - especially if it jumps on them up to face level - YOU should apologize & be working to get the dog back under control. (also while the neighbor wasn't kind to the dog, I don't think she was unkind to him? If a dog jumps up on you and you shove it back down, is that hurtful to the dog? I feel like it'd generally be w/in normal bounds of behavior correction, but I'm not really a dog expert.)

[conuly]

The columnist was a lot nicer to LW2 than I would've been. I'm reading that with my jaw dropped - you want an apology? You are way out of line. Control your dog! And if your dog slips out of your control, the appropriate thing to say is not "He's friendly!" but "I'm so sorry!"

[neotoma]

LW2 is oblivious to how she was at fault -- her large dog slipped its leash and leapt on someone, who didn't like that. As a dog owner, LW2 is responsible for the dog, even if it is still a puppy and poorly trained.

Extrapolating that a person who didn't tolerate poor behavior from a dog would be mean to kids is a pretty far reach; wanting an apology for exiting the situation is ridiculous.

[cimorene]

All of this, exactly! The only way to "clear the air" about that is to apologize!

[movingfinger]

When a dog that size jumps on a person, the claws are as big a hazard as the weight, the push, the mouth, etc. This dog owner is one of the ones giving all dogs and dog owners a bad reputation.

[julian]

Wow, LW #2 is so far out of line she's squiggling.

[minoanmiss]

I feel sorry for LW # 1 and LW#2’s neighbor. I wonder if #2 is one of #1’s in-laws.

[azurelunatic]

"Face kisses" in this context means that the dog jumped on her, in addition to sharing spit. LW #2 is lucky that her neighbor wasn't knocked over or injured. A broken hip from a friendly dog is still a fucking broken hip.

Signed,
Cancer Hip Neighbor

[dissectionist]

Exactly this. LW2 not understanding that behavior like that is actively dangerous comes from a place of oblivious ableism. A lot of folks think walking/standing instability is only something that elderly folks experience, but anyone of any age can have an instability issue that means a weight suddenly coming at your legs (or even higher on your body) you can easily make you topple. And even fully abled people fall sometimes when caught off guard.

[adrian_turtle]

A male golden retriever that is "past the puppy stage" weighs 50-70 pounds. That's a LOT to have coming at your face.

[dissectionist]

Right? We also don’t know if LW2’s neighbor could have allergies that make getting the dog off her a priority (and while many people do volunteer that info, nobody is under any responsibility to disclose their medical conditions).

[p_cocincinus]

There are a certain category of "dog people" who are utterly unable to comprehend that other people might have different feelings about dogs, particularly their dog, than they do. As a bonus, these are the people most likely to have poorly trained, anxious, unpredictable dogs, because they're not any more likely to provide good boundaries for their dog than they are to respect yours about their dog.

My kiddo is nervous around dogs, especially small dogs, because she was chased down and bitten by a small dog whose owner had just said, "Don't worry, she's friendly," not five seconds before. Probably the dog is perfectly friendly around adults, but many small dogs were originally bred to chase running animals, and can absolutely be triggered by, say, a young child running through a park. (This is also why I hate dogs on long leashes, because it's absolutely a red flag of people who don't know how to control their dog.)

[nonethefewer]

(This is also why I hate dogs on long leashes, because it's absolutely a red flag of people who don't know how to control their dog.)

I have very little experience with dogs -- how does the correlation work? (Tone is 100% curiosity/genuine.)

[p_cocincinus]

Dogs do better on short leashes - they’re more attuned to their human, they’re easier to control if they do get out of line, and they like the feeling of traveling with their packmate. Think about how much more pleasant it is to walk with a loved one next to you compared to having them trail behind or rush ahead! Add to that the possibility that the other person might suddenly rush into traffic or punch a random stranger… would you rather have them close enough to grab or ten feet away? Also a dog that’s leading the way feels like it’s their job to protect their packmate, which can lead to a dog that’s aggressive, anxious, or both!

Someone with a long leash is telling me that they don’t understand that part of dog psychology, which means they are much less likely to have a well-trained dog. (The dog that bit my kid was on a REALLY long leash, of the sort you might use to tie a dog out in the yard.)

[conuly]

I also have a suspicion that many of the people who use long leashes in areas where they are 100% inappropriate, such as urban sidewalks, are doing it because they think it's easier than teaching their dog how to walk on a leash, something which doesn't speak very well for their overall judgment.

[nonethefewer]

Thank you very much! I didn't know that about dog psychology at all. (Good thing I don't have a dog, of course.)

[p_cocincinus]

I don’t have one either, but dogs were a special interest of mine as a kid, and Kiddo and I watched a lot of Dog Expert shows after she was bitten, because I didn’t want her to be terrified of dogs. Watching owners learn how to interact properly with their dogs (and a lot about how dogs think and what they need) got her to the point where she could deeply feel that dogs weren’t inherently dangerous. Meanwhile now I know a lot about good dog etiquette! 😅

[castiron]

LW#1: your in-laws are assholes. Tell your husband and don't worry about the fallout; they brought it on themselves.

LW#2: you acted like an asshole. Go apologize to your neighbor and prove you're fit to share your home with a dog.

I like dogs, but I still don't want 70-100 pounds of friendliness jumping on me out of the blue. And I don't trust tiny dogs that come running at me, because around here they're likely untrained and aggressive terriers or chihuahuas.

[firecat]

If LW2 thinks how one treats dogs is the same as how one treats kids, imagine what her kids might be like. I wouldn’t want to drive them places.

[cereta]

#2 is everything about uber-dog people that I can't stand. "Face-kisses"? Face-kisses? How hard is it to understand that I don't want any slobber on my face?

[cora]

1 - Your in-laws deserve to have the riot act read to them. They're being awful about an issue that is obviously not a problem for your husband. If the inability to own a dog were that important to your husband, he would not have had a relationship with or married you. Sincerely - someone whose life would feel bereft without a cat - I'm not interested in partnered relationships in general, but if I were, 'is not enthusiastic about living with a cat' would be a deal breaker for me - for me, cats belong on people furniture including the bed (bed time is cat snuggle time). Not all cat enthusiasts agree, and that is totally fine, just means we wouldn't be compatible for a partnered relationship.

2 - I agree with what the agony aunt responded - plenty of people don't like dogs but treat children with care and respect. Similarly, plenty of people are great with animals and wary of kids. Also - doggo should not be getting off their leash. The only time a dog running up to face level isn't terrifying is when it is a dog you know & trust. You wouldn't hold an unknown cat like a baby in your arms (for fear of getting your face scratched off), ditto with you don't want an unknown dog near your face (for fear of getting your face bit off).

[green_grrl]

If the inability to own a dog were that important to your husband, he would not have had a relationship with or married you.

Exactly. Tell husband. Husband can tell family, “I would much rather have LW in my life than a dog. I made that decision a long time ago and it’s only more true today.”

[ethelmay]

Absolutely. And while it's possible some type of therapy might help, it's not something LW owes anyone, she's got a lot on her plate already, and if she were ever to do it, it would probably be more for the purpose of being able to put up with other people's dogs a little better. (We have an acquaintance who basically can't be in crowds that are likely to include leashed dogs, and therefore is essentially barred from farmers markets, street fairs, and the like. It's their decision how much that's limiting their life and whether they want to try to do something about it that might or might not help, and how depressing if it didn't.)

Anyway, professed dog people should be able to think of the poor dog. What dog would want to live with someone with a dog phobia?

[cora]

Right?! Dogs are incredibly affectionate. It's probably tough living in a house where someone who only wants to interact with you for food and water at most.

[melannen]

LW 2: No, you apologize.

LW 1: You have a bigger problem here than the dog issue, if your in-laws are constantly rude to you and you're afraid to talk to your husband about it. You need to figure out how you'd like your husband to respond when you tell him things like that, and figure out how to have the discussion with him that you need to be the one who decides what the response is, if the issue is about you, and then you will have an ally on your side instead of a poorly-controlled attack dog.

Do you want to not have to visit them at Christmas? Do you want to maintain contact and just have a moratorium on dog talk (or a moratorium on rudeness)? Do you want your husband to always be there to support you with them in the moment? Do you want to be able to vent to him and nothing else? Do you want his advice on how you can handle his mom? Do you want to cut them off entirely, or make a rule that contact with them is only through him for awhile? Those are all things it's reasonable to discuss with him. And you also need to figure out if some of what you think he might do is actually a good response - you really don't have to go over at Christmas if neither of you want to!

And if you can't trust him not to immediately fly off the handle regardless of your wishes, that's definitely something you need to work out with him first.

[movingfinger]

The second letter, "he slipped off his leash" uhhhhh if you are walking a large, high-energy dog, and you are a responsible dog owner, you use leash and harness-collar combos that make this not happen.

The rude one here is you, LW, not your neighbor whom you terrorized with a large out-of-control dog. Both you and your dog need socialization training and obedience classes.