cereta: "Candid" shot from Barbie Princess Charm school of goofy faces. (Barbie is goofy)
Lucy ([personal profile] cereta) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2017-01-06 08:34 am
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Dear Abby: my nephew wears pink


DEAR ABBY: My brother and sister-in-law have been dressing my 2-year-old nephew, "Charlie," in dresses and pink clothes. They say these are what the boy has chosen. To me, a toddler will pick out whatever gets his attention at the moment, and children that age have only a rudimentary understanding of gender.

It would be one thing if Charlie were old enough to understand and still insisted he felt more comfortable in girls' clothing. But at his age I feel what they're doing will only confuse him. Keep in mind, I do not believe this is a transgender issue. I think people who are transgender should dress and act the way they feel. I just feel that age 2 is too young to determine this.

My parents (the boy's grandparents) are worried and angry. My sister-in-law knows this upsets my mother and yet it's like she's taunting her with texts and pictures of Charlie in pink and/or dresses.

Should we be worried about this or should it be none of our business? Are we overreacting? Would it be best to approach my brother to tell him our concerns? -- TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND

DEAR TOO YOUNG: It is likely that Charlie is going through a phase and doing something he has seen other people do. But more important than what his mother buys for him is how others respond to it. A family's negative reaction sends a strong message. If Charlie is innocently testing out his/her authentic self, his grandparents' negative response will signal that they disapprove of who he is, which could have lasting ramifications for him.

Counselors at PFLAG (Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) have told me that many parents say that, looking back, they realize that by disapproving, they had sent their child the message that they couldn't accept him/her. One child had suicidal thoughts at the age of 5 because of it. (And yes, sometimes children that young do act on the impulse.)
watersword: A woman in a sunny field, kissing a toddler. (Stock: family)

[personal profile] watersword 2017-01-06 03:00 pm (UTC)(link)
.....what.

A two-year-old's parents are allowing them to choose their clothes. Their extended family is having a meltdown over the social signifiers of those clothes. Is that seriously what's going on here?

I seriously had to read this three times before I could figure out what the Letter Writer is "worried" about. This child's parents get a gold star for raising the child they actually have instead of some imaginary child.
watersword: Keira Knightley as Elizabeth Swann from the epilogue of Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End, & the word "elizabeth" (Elizabeth: grownup)

[personal profile] watersword 2017-01-06 06:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Like, okay: there are a couple of possibilities here.

1. Charlie was AMAB and does not identify as (only) male and is expressing that as best she can. In which case Charlie's parents are doing exactly the right thing and her extended family are being transphobic idiots.
2. Charlie was AMAB and identifies as (primarily) male and likes pink and dresses. In which case Charlie's parents are doing exactly the right thing and his extended family are being misogynistic idiots.
3. Charlie was AMAB and is exploring their identity and identity expression via the medium of clothing. In which case Charlie's parents are doing exactly the right thing and their extended family are being misogynistic repressive idiots.

Am I missing a case here?

I went and looked at the comments on uexpress (DON'T DO THIS) and a lot of people were shrieking about how Charlie's mother (not their father, who is, if I am not mistaken, the family connection) was clearly manipulating her child into clothes so as to score points off her in-laws and/or refusing to accept that her child was a boy (because she wanted a daughter to dress up, presumably). So, wow, that's ....quite a logical leap, there. Which I frankly don't think is justified by the text.
jadelennox: Senora Sabasa Garcia, by Goya (girlyman: gender is a sex toy)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2017-01-07 01:53 am (UTC)(link)
This is all the cases and more power to Charlie and their parents.
kiezh: Text: Apparently it was going to be one of those days when people made no sense whatsoever. (mina de malfois says people make no sens)

[personal profile] kiezh 2017-01-07 02:28 am (UTC)(link)
Yuuuuup. Regardless of what Charlie's eventual declared gender identity is, Charlie is growing up with safe adults who respect Charlie's personhood and self-expression. Super important and great for Charlie's mental health!

Relatives who are creeped out by toddler color preferences should go deal with their own feelings like adults (and maybe look into why a toddler's clothes push panic buttons for them, because SOMEONE has a "rudimentary understanding of gender" here but it's not Charlie), rather than trying to do permanent emotional damage to a little kid* to make themselves more comfortable.

*Because wow, do kids internalize "adults in my family think I'm bad/wrong/disgusting" fast. Which Abby seems to actually know! Somewhat less clueless than her usual.
elialshadowpine: (Default)

[personal profile] elialshadowpine 2017-01-11 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
I'd add only that someone ought quietly take the LW aside and explain that there are actual -- yes -- studies that have shown children begin to develop gender identity while they're still in diapers. The LW seems to be relatively supportive in the case of it being a "transgender issue" (not the greatest phrasing, but everyone starts somewhere), but is blithely unaware that it can be one at this child's age.
zulu: Carson Shaw looking up at Greta Gill (Default)

[personal profile] zulu 2017-01-06 03:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Just commenting to say I gave L a choice this morning between dress or pants, he chose dress, and he's very proud of himself (he turns 2 next week). We usually let him wear a dress to daycare once or twice a week because they have uniforms and it's nice to be able to give him two choices that are both uniform-acceptable. For that matter, last weekend he insisted on dressing like a fireman, so we did that too.

Here he is in his Christmas dress: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17BIAYrP1_X3hEBbwGDL2-IdCCxKp7FrEHg/view?usp=sharing

I expect, with socialization being what it is, he might stop wanting the dress in a year or so. But at least he knows what's available.
minoanmiss: Nubian Minoan Lady (Nubian Minoan Lady)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2017-01-06 06:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Awww! He's adorable and festive!
A+ parenting. :)
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

Dear LW's brother and sister in law

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2017-01-06 06:19 pm (UTC)(link)
1) you're awesome
2) tell everyone you're being old-fashioned. A century ago people put all toddlers in dresses and pink was seen as a warm, manly color.
3)*fistbump*
xenacryst: Peanuts charactor looking unimpressed (Peanuts: isn't impressed)

[personal profile] xenacryst 2017-01-06 06:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Let me introduce you to Jackie. Jackie is in first grade now, and has been Jackie for three years. Before that she was Jack, and he was miserable. Since realizing that she didn't have to be a boy, and wearing whatever the fuck she wants (tending towards girl-ish, but really, whatever) and wearing her hair long, she has been the most energetic, enthusiastic, and dare I say happy kid on the playground. As of the end of December, she even has a US passport in her name and gender.

Yes, she's 6 now, so that means she started this when she was a little bit older than the child in the letter, but not much. Let me introduce you to a large number of trans folk, many of whom knew who the were at very early ages, despite massive efforts by their family to deny it. Rather than be fighting this kid's desires - which may be a phase, or may be an expression of what she truly feels - try celebrating the child and encouraging them to be whomever they want to be. Isn't that one of the joys of having kids these days?

Other than that, pretty much what everyone else has said.
Edited (html tags) 2017-01-06 18:29 (UTC)
vass: Small turtle with green leaf in its mouth (Default)

[personal profile] vass 2017-01-07 02:16 am (UTC)(link)
It seems to me that Charlie is not the one with "only a rudimentary understanding of gender".

Let the kid wear pink and ruffles!

Abby's response is surprisingly good, actually. My only major addition would be that whether or not Charlie's trans, the grandparents' negative response will signal to Charlie what is and isn't socially okay and what sorts of people are allowed to exist without scorn and shunning, and this will affect how Charlie treats the other kids on the playground, and the other people Charlie meets.

And if they don't care about Charlie learning from them to be mean to feminine boys (or non-binary kids), maybe they'll care more that if they teach Charlie that pink and ruffles = unacceptable and valid target, most of the kids Charlie will meet who wear pink and ruffles are girls.
kiezh: Tree and birds reflected in water. (Default)

[personal profile] kiezh 2017-01-07 02:42 am (UTC)(link)
Heh, you zeroed in on that "rudimentary understanding of gender" line too. That was just... painful irony.

Also, interesting point about modeling treatment of other people. I was thinking primarily of Charlie's own self-image, which could be badly damaged by the disgust and revulsion shown by *phobic relatives, but of course attitudes like that don't stop at harming one person, they have ripple effects.
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2017-01-07 03:45 am (UTC)(link)
A lot has been said about gender identity. To that I'll add that a two-year-old boy who is happy in a dress might be equally happy in more traditionally masculine clothes. When my son was two, he was pretty much oblivious to what he was wearing. The key is that Charlie is happy. As long he's happy with his clothes, what does matter whether those clothes come from the boy side of the store or the girl side? His grandparents need to chill.