Ask a Manager: My employee is freezing out a manager after he joked about King Charles

[minoanmiss]

I am a manager for a large company. There are five other people in my role and we share two administrative assistants. One of the admins, “Kate,” is really into the royal family. When there is a wedding or funeral, she will stream it at work or take the day off. There are also a lot of British decorations at her workspace, think a coffee mug with the Union Jack. (We’re in the U.S.)

A few days after Queen Elizabeth’s death, the six managers were preparing for a meeting in a conference room and Kate was helping. We were making small talk about current events and another manager, “William,” said, “It looks like a 73-year-old man will finally get a job.” The rest of us laughed or said things like “no kidding!” Kate was livid. She told William that what he said was disrespectful and hurtful. William said he was sorry, but it wasn’t very genuine. Personally, I think William’s joke was fine but he should have known better than to make it around Kate.

I thought this would blow over, but since this incident, Kate refuses to acknowledge William or do any work for him. Annual reviews are in a few weeks and I think this would be a good time to address this with Kate. It’s not appropriate for her to freeze William out this way and I want her to stop, but I’m not sure how to phrase this without sounding like I’m saying Kate is too sensitive or can’t take a joke, things that I know put people on the defensive. Any advice?

Don’t wait for her annual review in a few weeks; you need to nip this in the bud now. She’s welcome to have whatever personal thoughts about William she wants, but she cannot freeze out a colleague or refuse to do part of her job. That’s a really big deal, and if you let it go on for several more weeks, you’ll be neglecting a fundamental part of your own job, as well as allowing an unpleasant environment to fester for everyone else.

Sit down with Kate and say, “I understand that you found William’s joke offensive, but you cannot freeze him out or refuse to do work for him. Part of your job — part of everyone’s job here — is being civil to colleagues. You don’t need to like William, but you do need to be civil to him and do work for him when it’s assigned.” If she balks at that, say, “I need to be clear — there’s no flexibility on this. I cannot let you create an unpleasant environment for other people or refuse to do part of your job.”

And for the record, that’s a wild overreaction to a mild, if tasteless, joke.

Comments

“It looks like a 73-year-old man will finally get a job.”

[minoanmiss]

My interest in this is slightly tangential. One of the topics under discussion is whether or not this joke is offensive. There is a certain extent to which offensiveness is in the eye of the beholder, but there's also a certain extent to which it can be objectively described.

Some commenters found this joke ageist and equivalent to racist, sexist, and other bigoted jokes. Other commenters found that statement risible. What do you think about both this specific joke and about how to succinctly describe if a joke is offensive or not?

Re: “It looks like a 73-year-old man will finally get a job.”

[adrian_turtle]

I don't think this specific joke is ageist, because it does not turn on the idea that a 73-year-old is incompetent because of his age. It turns on the idea that he has been unemployed his whole life and is only beginning to work after most people retire. (This happens to not be true. He spent most of his life working for the British tourism industry.)

I don't think you can "succinctly describe if a joke is offensive." Not always, perhaps not usually. It depends what is meant to make the joke funny--who or what is being mocked, what expectation is being twisted. Some political satire in the mode of "exaggerate what your opponents say so it's obviously outrageously evil" has become less funny and more offensive in these parlous times.

ETA: The problem of describing if a joke is offensive is complicated by the fact that people can hear a joke differently. Does the King Charles joke turn on the idea that Charles was unemployed until past retirement age because being prince is not a job? Or does it turn on the idea that being king is not really a job in today's UK?

Re: “It looks like a 73-year-old man will finally get a job.”

[lilysea]

My partner is 63, he has had trouble getting jobs due to age discrimination,

and I don't find this joke in the slightest bit offensive

(and I don't think he would either).

It's a joke at the expense of *the Royal Family*, not men over 70 in general.

And the Royal Family, with their tax-free millions; the enormous sums they get from the British government just for existing; and their right to veto any law they dislike without citing a reason, are hardly a persecuted minority.

Re: “It looks like a 73-year-old man will finally get a job.”

[ashbet]

I feel like this is "punching up" (a joke at the expense of a single, tax-supported, hyper-rich, extremely-privileged family/individual), versus "punching down" toward someone experiencing genuine oppression.

You can still make a joke about someone privileged which is offensive (I kept telling people that fat jokes about Donald Trump are still hurtful to fat people, no matter how despicable HE was.)

Wealth is not an excuse to tell racist jokes (looking at Kanye West -- the criticisms I'd lob at him would center on his actions, not his Blackness.)

There is no excuse for being a bigot, under any circumstances.

I do not think that making a joke about Charles getting a job is somehow offensive, even though it's not exactly accurate (he will continue being highly-privileged and doing some amount of work, in a job that can't fire him and is supported by taxpayers.)

Re: “It looks like a 73-year-old man will finally get a job.”

[jadelennox]

I would say that the question is whether royals are a Protected Class. And in the U.S., we rather famously fought a war to say they aren't.

(It doesn't sound like Kate was offended because of ageism, it sounds like she was offended because her fandom was slagged off, and this is just as ridiculous as attacking a co-worker because they made a joke that Peter Capaldi was an old white man when he became the Doctor.)

[oursin]

I can't imagine this blowing up to such an extent on our side of the pond....
On the other hand, there are some screaming 'anti-woke' types around being very vocal who might take exception? I still find it hard to envisage.

[ethelmay]

Weren't there people getting arrested for saying things like "Who elected him?" ...okay, found it: "A 22-year-old woman will face charges for holding up a sign that said “fuck imperialism,” while a man was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police van for asking who elected King Charles III." https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkg35b/queen-protesters-arrested

Seems as if, if that kind of thing is happening in the public square, so to speak, there must be private disagreements along the same lines.

[petrea_mitchell]

Oh yes, quite a few of the British people I know would like to see the monarchy abolished.

[oursin]

That was quite widely called out as wild over-reaction, and I think that if anyone said something along the lines of what William said in a work context most people would take it in a joking spirit (if they didn't start raking up the tampon story...)

[shanaqui]

Eh. My wife got kicked out of a Final Fantasy XIV Discord server by a fellow Brit for saying that they didn't get why the mass public mourning for the queen, and that they wished there were still other things on TV (while saying "I totally respect if other people are mourning, but I'm not personally interested"). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are super-duper royals fans everywhere.

[lethe1]

I absolutely agree with William's statement. I more or less said the same thing at the time, and not really as a joke. I don't think it is ageist. Charles has been in limbo his whole life and finally, way past the retirement age of the general population, he has to take up his kingly duties. And all because British royalty/the Queen thinks dying in harness is the proper thing to do instead of retiring at a reasonable time.

There were enough people who said William should become the new king instead of Charles, but that is apparently not possible according to British law.

[petrea_mitchell]

All the royals have jobs from the moment they're old enough to do them, showing up to bless openings and other special occasions (I remember reading that Princess Anne has been attending something like 400 engagements a year), serving as charity patrons, etc. I use the religious language deliberately; they're basically born into a cult with millions of members like "Kate" all over the world.

It is entirely possible for William to take over as king. All Charles has to do is abdicate. Of course that is like saying all someone has to do is leave a huge cult they've been brainwashed into since birth.

Also, excellent choice of userpic there.

[lethe1]

Thank you :)

[minoanmiss]

A++ icon use!

Also I LOVE YOU ALL. Seeing this little joke compared to racist and ablist jokes made me want to BITE someone and NOT in the fun way.

[oursin]

It is very mild indeed compared to some of the satire slung at earlier monarchs, a longstanding Brit Trad.

[azurelunatic]

I interpret it as acknowledging the damage that ageism does in the general case by pointing out an arguably risible counterexample. This particular guy has a basically guaranteed job, at an age where many people who would like to work (or need to work) are presumed incompetent, but due to family connections and a long apprenticeship, he gets the job regardless of his actual competence in it. Presumably without any kind of oversight into the interview process.