agonyaunt | (no subject)

(no subject)

DEAR ABBY: I have been married to my husband for nearly six years. We have a very good relationship and have three grown adult children between us. Four years ago, my daughter and his daughter-in-law had children -- I will call them "Timmy" and "Jenny."

My grandson Timmy is autistic, but doing well with speech therapy and special education (preschool). He has his challenges, but we are supportive and encouraging. Jenny is and always has been a chatterbox. She was a good little girl until she turned 4. Her parents buy her anything and everything she wants, and she's allowed to run the show.

Recently, we watched her overnight, and I was upset with her for calling my husband an old, fat man and a punk, in addition to trying to manipulate us as she does her parents. Discipline to curb her smart mouth is frowned upon, and laughed off. My husband has spoken to his son about this twice. It has changed nothing. I don't feel it's my place to scold and discipline, but if she's in my home, I think she must behave respectfully. Abby, please help with any advice. -- FRUSTRATED NANA IN WASHINGTON

DEAR NANA: That little girl is 4. By failing to teach their daughter consideration for the feelings of others, your husband's son and daughter-in-law are doing Jenny a disservice. By the time she's 6, she'll be as welcome as a polecat at a picnic. You have every right to make and enforce the rules for what goes on in your home. Jenny should not be permitted to call your husband (or anyone, for that matter) nasty names, and unless she apologizes, you should not babysit her.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearabby/s-2734088

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What the hell did I just read?

This child is four years old. Sure, she should not be allowed to call people names - but she's four! It's a stage! They all go through it, and they all outgrow it. And it's not entirely clear to me whether or not she *was* calling him names. From a four year old's perspective, her grandfather certainly is old, and both "old" and "fat" are simply statements, no more endowed with sentiment than "tall" or "blue". As for punk - well, I'd have to know the context in which she said it. Like, is this something her parents say in a friendly, joking way? Or is it something she said when she was really upset? Four year olds are learning to use their words to express their feelings rather than to lash out physically. This is actually something we want them to do, even if they start off by using them in ways we don't usually prefer.

I'm much more concerned about the fact that this horrible woman is saying that her four year old granddaughter is not "good", or that she manipulates people. Again - she's four! They can't manipulate people! They're four! (And you gotta love how she shoved "she's a chatterbox" in there, like that's yet another bad thing for a girl. God, she talks! The horror.)

Can't help thinking it'd be a good thing for the child if grandparents don't babysit her much.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

“Punk” as an insult is also . . . well, weirdly old-fashioned. Where did she pick up this word? Does she even know what it means? Frankly, is LW even sure she’s hearing her grandchild correctly? It’s my experience that four year olds are not always great at enunciating.

right? I find it extremely funny that she called her grandfather a punk?? i'd guess she got it from tv or a movie. i think it's also hard for kids to get that the range of emotion/expression in fiction is exaggerated & you can't/shouldn't talk like that in real life. (and honestly......... sometimes even a problem for adults - haven't we all picked up an expression from tv/film/a book & then learned we misunderstood the connotation? I remember as a teen not knowing "croak" was pejorative)

They can't manipulate people! They're four!

Seriously!!!

If you define "manipulate people" as "try to get people to do what you want them to", then four-year-olds -- and younger! -- absolutely can and do manipulate people. (Often not very well, and almost never subtly.) This is not a bad thing! This is a normal part of learning to interact with other humans.

LW, however, presumably means it as "sneakily try to get people with authority over you to do what you want rather than obeying what they want". And LW can stuff it. Yes, it's entirely reasonable to say "you don't speak to us this way in our house" and enforce consequences, gritting your teeth and thinking "f'ing fours" all the while. It's not reasonable to treat your chatty four-year-old like a monster in the making.

Somebody in the comments at Uexpress claimed that asking for an extra story at bedtime is "manipulative". I mean, I'd call that communication, personally, but sure, let's just paint that in a weirdly bad light for no reason.

And even if kid is asking for the extra story with the ulterior motive of staying awake later or having parent's attention longer rather than the simple desire to hear another story, so what? The kid should be allowed to ask; the parent can still say "yes" or "no".

Seriously.

Yeah, it does sound like annoying behavior, but the kind that you guide kids for, not punish them. "Okay, being silly is fun, but that didn't sound funny to Grandpa. Can we think of some goofy things to say that are funny for everyone?" And then start cheerfully talking nonsense. Or say "It sounds as if you have lots of energy and need something to do with it," and suggest an activity that will wear them out a little bit.

Though if she wasn't being silly, just matter-of-factly stating that her grandfather is old and fat, that's a different thing. I might mostly ignore that, or I might at some point seize an opportunity to try to explain why Grandpa doesn't like that.

I read "Discipline to curb her smart mouth is frowned upon, and laughed off" as "They won't let me send her to her room or make her stand in a corner or even tell her she's a wicked girl."

As everyone else has pointed out, she's four, and you can ignore a careless or frustrated word or gently correct an unkind one.

Meanwhile, I can't even count the red flags in this letter. Jenny will be 45 and Nana will still be saying she could be a good girl if her parents hadn't spoiled her so.

And what was the point of mentioning Timmy? To get brownie points for being tolerant of all this newfangled diagnosis business?

As everyone else has pointed out, she's four, and you can ignore a careless or frustrated word or gently correct an unkind one.

Everybody else *here*. The comments at uexpress will make you very sad and/or frustrated.

And what was the point of mentioning Timmy? To get brownie points for being tolerant of all this newfangled diagnosis business?

Yo, he's not even her brother or even her actual cousin.

No point whatsoever, unless LW is trying to make Jenny look even worse when compared with LW's own grandchild.

Yeah, I went back to reread and try to find if I'd missed somewhere that Timmy became relevant, but... no. Honestly it kinda feels like the grandparent version of that awful Autism Mommy thing where the kid's diagnosis is the parent's saintly trial, proving how courageous and giving and pure of heart they are, to love such a burdensome child! Ugh.

In this case: LW's not mean or unloving, it's the granddaughter's fault! LW loves her autistic grandchild, see how she trots him out as part of her Loving Nana credentials! 🙄

"Discipline to curb her smart mouth" (about a 4yo!) is horrifying, and I agree that it's a red flag and shows LW's attitude toward Jenny in general. She is now a Designated Bad Kid (and I hope her parents notice that and don't trust LW with power over her).

It looks like Timmy and Jenny may be twins -- they seem to be from the same parents -- so I figured the point was to say that the parents were giving all/most of their parenting time and attention to Timmy, and Jenny was being allowed to run wild.

They're not twins.

DEAR ABBY: I have been married to my husband for nearly six years. We have a very good relationship and have three grown adult children between us. Four years ago, my daughter and his daughter-in-law had children -- I will call them "Timmy" and "Jenny."

Her daughter had one child. His daughter-in-law had another child. Those two children are named Timmy and Jenny.

My grandson Timmy is autistic, but doing well with speech therapy and special education (preschool).

Timmy is her grandson, that is, her daughter's child.

Discipline to curb her smart mouth is frowned upon, and laughed off. My husband has spoken to his son about this twice.

Jenny is her husband's granddaughter, that is, his son's child.

Thank you, I'm not sure how I mangled that in my brain.

You mangled it because if they're not siblings then there's just no reason for Timmy to be mentioned at all, other than to demonstrate that her child and grandchild are superior to her husband's family.

I read "Discipline" as "spanking". Not sure why.

Like. Explain to her why that hurts, and why it's a bad idea.

Or, alternatively, don't babysit her, which sounds even better.

She's four so calm down on punishment but maybe explain to her those terms are mean and not to use them. Then go have a cup of tea or something and calm down like I said.

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