agonyaunt | (no subject)

DEAR ABBY: I have been married to my husband for nearly six years. We have a very good relationship and have three grown adult children between us. Four years ago, my daughter and his daughter-in-law had children -- I will call them "Timmy" and "Jenny."

My grandson Timmy is autistic, but doing well with speech therapy and special education (preschool). He has his challenges, but we are supportive and encouraging. Jenny is and always has been a chatterbox. She was a good little girl until she turned 4. Her parents buy her anything and everything she wants, and she's allowed to run the show.

Recently, we watched her overnight, and I was upset with her for calling my husband an old, fat man and a punk, in addition to trying to manipulate us as she does her parents. Discipline to curb her smart mouth is frowned upon, and laughed off. My husband has spoken to his son about this twice. It has changed nothing. I don't feel it's my place to scold and discipline, but if she's in my home, I think she must behave respectfully. Abby, please help with any advice. -- FRUSTRATED NANA IN WASHINGTON

DEAR NANA: That little girl is 4. By failing to teach their daughter consideration for the feelings of others, your husband's son and daughter-in-law are doing Jenny a disservice. By the time she's 6, she'll be as welcome as a polecat at a picnic. You have every right to make and enforce the rules for what goes on in your home. Jenny should not be permitted to call your husband (or anyone, for that matter) nasty names, and unless she apologizes, you should not babysit her.

https://www.arcamax.com/healthandspirit/lifeadvice/dearabby/s-2734088

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What the hell did I just read?

This child is four years old. Sure, she should not be allowed to call people names - but she's four! It's a stage! They all go through it, and they all outgrow it. And it's not entirely clear to me whether or not she *was* calling him names. From a four year old's perspective, her grandfather certainly is old, and both "old" and "fat" are simply statements, no more endowed with sentiment than "tall" or "blue". As for punk - well, I'd have to know the context in which she said it. Like, is this something her parents say in a friendly, joking way? Or is it something she said when she was really upset? Four year olds are learning to use their words to express their feelings rather than to lash out physically. This is actually something we want them to do, even if they start off by using them in ways we don't usually prefer.

I'm much more concerned about the fact that this horrible woman is saying that her four year old granddaughter is not "good", or that she manipulates people. Again - she's four! They can't manipulate people! They're four! (And you gotta love how she shoved "she's a chatterbox" in there, like that's yet another bad thing for a girl. God, she talks! The horror.)

Can't help thinking it'd be a good thing for the child if grandparents don't babysit her much.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

“Punk” as an insult is also . . . well, weirdly old-fashioned. Where did she pick up this word? Does she even know what it means? Frankly, is LW even sure she’s hearing her grandchild correctly? It’s my experience that four year olds are not always great at enunciating.

right? I find it extremely funny that she called her grandfather a punk?? i'd guess she got it from tv or a movie. i think it's also hard for kids to get that the range of emotion/expression in fiction is exaggerated & you can't/shouldn't talk like that in real life. (and honestly......... sometimes even a problem for adults - haven't we all picked up an expression from tv/film/a book & then learned we misunderstood the connotation? I remember as a teen not knowing "croak" was pejorative)

They can't manipulate people! They're four!

Seriously!!!

If you define "manipulate people" as "try to get people to do what you want them to", then four-year-olds -- and younger! -- absolutely can and do manipulate people. (Often not very well, and almost never subtly.) This is not a bad thing! This is a normal part of learning to interact with other humans.

LW, however, presumably means it as "sneakily try to get people with authority over you to do what you want rather than obeying what they want". And LW can stuff it. Yes, it's entirely reasonable to say "you don't speak to us this way in our house" and enforce consequences, gritting your teeth and thinking "f'ing fours" all the while. It's not reasonable to treat your chatty four-year-old like a monster in the making.

Somebody in the comments at Uexpress claimed that asking for an extra story at bedtime is "manipulative". I mean, I'd call that communication, personally, but sure, let's just paint that in a weirdly bad light for no reason.

And even if kid is asking for the extra story with the ulterior motive of staying awake later or having parent's attention longer rather than the simple desire to hear another story, so what? The kid should be allowed to ask; the parent can still say "yes" or "no".

Seriously.