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agonyaunt2022-09-28 11:40 am
minoanmiss) wrote in agonyaunt2022-09-28 11:40 am
Entry tags:
Care & Feeding: My Wife is a Total Slob...
... And Her Justification for the Mess Is Absurd
Dear Care and Feeding,
My wife and I (together for 5 years, married 3) are expecting our first child, a daughter, in February. My wife is incredibly beautiful, talented, sexy, intellectual, fiercely loyal, basically perfect except…she’s a HUGE slob. We often joke that she’s a “slut” in the original sense of the word, i.e. a bad and lazy housekeeper. If I don’t want to live with grimy bathrooms, a sink full of dishes, and tumbleweeds of cat hair blowing everywhere, I have to clean, which I don’t mind doing, if that’s the price of being with her. I was single for over a decade before we met and had all but despaired of falling in love or having a family.
The only thing that irritates me is when she justifies herself by claiming she’s fighting back against centuries of unfair domestic expectations of women, or that being a female “art monster” (a creative artist who neglects everything except their work) makes her rare and special. Her parents are a doctor (dad) and lawyer (mom) and she grew up with nannies and cleaning ladies. I grew up with a hard-working single mom and got used to pitching in from an early age. She’s entitled to her own choices, but I hope I’m not being out of line by NOT wanting her teaching our daughter that it’s cool and feminist to be a slob. How can I instill basic housekeeping skills in our kids, without getting into a verbal war about the historic imbalance of household responsibilities?
— The Art Monster’s Male Maid
Dear Male Maid,
I don’t think that rejecting all domestic work is an inherently feminist choice, but I do know that the reality for women is that “having it all” often also means “doing it all.” Even when both partners work, in heterosexual couples, women in the relationship are more likely to have primary responsibility for doing the laundry, cleaning the house, and preparing meals. Your wife may legitimately feel that she has to choose between her own creative work and the domestic work it takes to keep a home running. She also may simply lack the required skills.
Whatever the case, she’s made it clear she’s not interested in learning them, so it’s really up to you to decide how to move forward. An equitable division of labor is ideal for most, but that balance is unique to every couple, depending on careers, children, finances, etc.
As someone who made it to my late 30s before I even learned how to cook a grilled cheese, I do think it’s important for children of both genders to learn the skills they’ll need to take care of themselves and their homes as adults. But can’t you be the person to instill those lessons in your kids? After all, there are lots of families where one partner does the bulk of the domestic tasks, and when that partner is a woman, I rarely hear any outcry about who will teach the children. Or might you hire a housekeeper, if you have the resources? This is obviously a pretty privileged option, but when it’s feasible, paying someone a fair wage can be a lot easier than fighting about it in perpetuity.
And if you haven’t, I also think you need to have a serious conversation about expectations around the division of labor when it comes to childcare and the work of parenting. The workload at home is about to increase exponentially, and if you can’t agree on the best way to manage it, you’ll likely end up resenting each other, which would be worse for your future child than a sink full of dishes.
Dear Care and Feeding,
My wife and I (together for 5 years, married 3) are expecting our first child, a daughter, in February. My wife is incredibly beautiful, talented, sexy, intellectual, fiercely loyal, basically perfect except…she’s a HUGE slob. We often joke that she’s a “slut” in the original sense of the word, i.e. a bad and lazy housekeeper. If I don’t want to live with grimy bathrooms, a sink full of dishes, and tumbleweeds of cat hair blowing everywhere, I have to clean, which I don’t mind doing, if that’s the price of being with her. I was single for over a decade before we met and had all but despaired of falling in love or having a family.
The only thing that irritates me is when she justifies herself by claiming she’s fighting back against centuries of unfair domestic expectations of women, or that being a female “art monster” (a creative artist who neglects everything except their work) makes her rare and special. Her parents are a doctor (dad) and lawyer (mom) and she grew up with nannies and cleaning ladies. I grew up with a hard-working single mom and got used to pitching in from an early age. She’s entitled to her own choices, but I hope I’m not being out of line by NOT wanting her teaching our daughter that it’s cool and feminist to be a slob. How can I instill basic housekeeping skills in our kids, without getting into a verbal war about the historic imbalance of household responsibilities?
— The Art Monster’s Male Maid
Dear Male Maid,
I don’t think that rejecting all domestic work is an inherently feminist choice, but I do know that the reality for women is that “having it all” often also means “doing it all.” Even when both partners work, in heterosexual couples, women in the relationship are more likely to have primary responsibility for doing the laundry, cleaning the house, and preparing meals. Your wife may legitimately feel that she has to choose between her own creative work and the domestic work it takes to keep a home running. She also may simply lack the required skills.
Whatever the case, she’s made it clear she’s not interested in learning them, so it’s really up to you to decide how to move forward. An equitable division of labor is ideal for most, but that balance is unique to every couple, depending on careers, children, finances, etc.
As someone who made it to my late 30s before I even learned how to cook a grilled cheese, I do think it’s important for children of both genders to learn the skills they’ll need to take care of themselves and their homes as adults. But can’t you be the person to instill those lessons in your kids? After all, there are lots of families where one partner does the bulk of the domestic tasks, and when that partner is a woman, I rarely hear any outcry about who will teach the children. Or might you hire a housekeeper, if you have the resources? This is obviously a pretty privileged option, but when it’s feasible, paying someone a fair wage can be a lot easier than fighting about it in perpetuity.
And if you haven’t, I also think you need to have a serious conversation about expectations around the division of labor when it comes to childcare and the work of parenting. The workload at home is about to increase exponentially, and if you can’t agree on the best way to manage it, you’ll likely end up resenting each other, which would be worse for your future child than a sink full of dishes.
no subject
I think about all the conversations I've seen online where Person A is given a pass for behavior that affects Person B and Person B is advised to suck it up because "Maybe Person A is neuroatypical".
I agree that this is an issue! I think the important distinction here is between "maybe they're ND" as a shut-down, an excuse that ends the conversation (which I agree is bad and a misuse of the language of disability), and making it the opening of a *new* conversation - what's the actual mechanism of the problem here? How can it be addressed in a useful way?
For instance - the refrain that pops up in every discussion of Creepy Guys, where people chime in with "maybe he is bad at social cues because he's neurodivergent". That's not the end of hypothetical dude's responsibility! As an ND person who is by nature shit at social cues, this is an area I've put a lot of work into - and knowing what the problem is helps me figure what kind of work to do. Or another common issue is adult women who figure out they have ADHD and can therefore start trying strategies for how their brain actually works, rather than just thinking they're stupid/lazy/etc.
And in this letter's case, I don't think LW should have to "suck it up" that his wife doesn't clean and is willing to let things get filthy. But I do think that it would be more useful, to him and to her, to reframe in terms of "what is the mechanism of the problem?" rather than assume she's just Bad. Even if she's completely neurotypical and it's a privilege issue - being trained not to "see" dirt because someone else always took care of it is potentially fixable! She could learn new skills! If they can get on the same side and work on it together.
no subject
That makes a lot of sense. Just declaring someone Bad doesn't help figure out how the dishes actually get done.
Also it makes sense that you identify with her, considering your experiences, just like I identified with him, considering mine (I was a scholarship kid at a school for rich children. I ended up pretty unimpressed with the 1%.) One of the interesting things about these tales we read from the advice columns is who identifies with whom and why.
no subject
I went to a public (no-fee) Primary School where some of the kids were quite rich [some of the kids had parents who were bankers and advertising executives], when my family were reliant on food parcels from the church in order to be able to eat. I hear you!
On the other hand, as a Disabled/chronically ill person who just ran my Roomba for the first time today since 3 March 2022 because I was having difficulty picking all the cords, cables, clothes, rubbish etc off the floor due to hip pain when I bend; I have a lot of time for people who can't clean due to pain, fatigue, ADHD, Depression. Too much bending to pick stuff up off the floor = my pain can flare up for a week to the point that I can't sleep due to pain.
I have ZERO time for people who won't clean because "it's below them" or because they think they're too rich/too important.
I really like this book about how cleaning is morally neutral, shame is not useful, and your space exists to serve you, you don't exist to serve your space
How to Keep House While Drowning: A gentle approach to cleaning and organising by KC Davis
https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Keep-House-While-Drowning-ebook/dp/B09KTGVQRH
no subject