agonyaunt | (no subject)

(no subject)

Dear Care and Feeding,

We recently made a trip to visit my in-laws. The whole time, it seemed like they were criticizing my parenting. A lot of it was unintentional, I realize. For example, we took the kids to the pool, and I was watching them swim while my MIL and the rest of the adults in the family were chatting or reading. But every 20 minutes or so, she would suddenly rush over to the pool to check on the grandkids. If one of them was off in the bathroom or otherwise not in her sight, she’d freak out and yell “Where is ___?!?” It was like she felt that SHE was the one watching them swim instead of me, and she kept talking about how hard and stressful it was to keep track of them. Except … she wasn’t! I was!

Other criticisms were definitely intentional. When we were at a park, my 6-year-old was climbing up a rope ladder on the play structure. My father-in-law said, “Aren’t you worried about her?” I said I was not, and he said, “Well, you should be!” I knew better than to respond, but it was frustrating nonetheless. And the entire weeklong visit was just variations of the in-laws acting like they were the only people standing between my kids and certain death. My father-in-law told the kids to be careful every. single. time. they went up or down stairs (they are 6 and 10! They know how to go up and down stairs!).

My in-laws have always been anxious people, but their fearfulness has clearly reached a new level and it is unbearable to me. Now they have announced that they are coming to visit us later this summer. I feel like I might snap when they inevitably tell the kids to be careful when they are walking up the stairs in their own home. Or act as if my husband and I are not supervising them well enough when they’re playing. Neither of us can think of any productive way to address this. I think if we tell them it bothers us, they will take that as additional evidence that we are not sufficiently cautious when it comes to the kids. Should we try to talk to them or just do our best to ignore these constant remarks? (For what it’s worth, the 10-year-old is also fed up with this, because she feels that they treat her like she’s a toddler. So if we don’t say something, she might!)

—Overcautious Grandparents

Dear OG,

I know it’s maddening to have people, particularly in-laws, second-guess your parenting. My in-laws did it too—not about matters of safety (I think they thought I was the one who was absurdly cautious: when I expressed concern about, say, trampoline-jumping without a net in their yard, they dismissed it), but about everything else. I spent a lot of time on those visits keeping my lips sealed, which is not easy for me.

Everyone has opinions about other people’s parenting. How we keep them safe, how much risk we’re willing to allow, how and what we feed them, how we “let them talk” to us, how we dress them and how we address their fears, sleep troubles, behavior, etc. If you pay attention to this stuff, you’ll be driven mad by it. Ignore it. Whether it’s truly criticism or your in-laws are just so anxious they can’t keep themselves from worrying (no matter how absurd the particular worry is), you can’t make them stop. If you’re really desperate (and your husband is on board), you can try, though I don’t have much hope that telling them their constant comments bother you will have any effect. The best thing to do is not engage. When they say “Aren’t you concerned that Sam is going to get hurt/get lost/drown/fall down the stairs?”, just say, “Nope.” Cheerfully. And move on.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2022/07/in-laws-boundaries-parenting.html

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Columnist's advice isn't bad, per se, but my advice is better:

When your inlaws "announce" that they are coming to visit, call them up and announce that they are not, in fact, coming to visit.

Better yet - don't. Just make plans to be out of town during their visit and let them figure it out for themselves.

(I am not totally serious about that last part, but I'd be tempted...!)

I honestly might do just that but I am sometimes excessively nonconfrontational. "so sorry, we have plans that week! and the week before! and the week after!"

I am extremely confrontational, but I don't actually like *conflict*, so I honestly *would* do it if I could get the spouse on board.

That'd blow up my relationship with the inlaws, but honestly, they sound awful so who cares.

But I know how people are. I would never get the spouse on board.

Edited 2022-07-13 13:49 (UTC)

Your advice is better than the columnist's!

Inviting themselves is aggressive. If impossible to reject the visit, aggressively counter it by getting them a hotel in a town an hour away, because everything near you is booked.

I think cheerfully saying "Nope, it's totally safe," "Don't worry, she's never been out of my sight for a second," "It's fine, she does it all the time" and then changing the subject deliberately wouldn't be out of place here.

I understand the advice to ignore and offer no explanations too, which is sound for like... discouraging passive aggression, but I think this LW might be better off asserting herself and actively changing both the subject and the vibe, if only to support her 10 year old.

While the grandparents are overstepping when it comes to stuff like stairs and ordinary playground equipment, there is at least reasonable grounds to be solicitous of the wellbeing of your small relatives; these guys are just overreacting to non-threats. A cheerful and matter-of-fact reassurance that it's fine is appropriate for an over-anxious child or other neophyte; it's hard to imagine that playgrounds or stairs are novel threats to these guys, but perhaps they're just so nervous that everything is scary. At any rate, these examples are way too ridiculous to be coming from a place of insincerity, I think.

All this assumes the LW isn't willing to just cancel the visit, obviously. More power to her if she can.

It might be worth one serious conversation when the kids aren't around, to explain why you are making the choices that you are. It sounds as if the parents are providing an adequate but not OTT level of supervision which allows the children to practice taking small risks in a safe environment, to help them learn how to keep themselves safe. That might cut through the double bind.

This is absolutely terrible advice.

You know what you would be modeling for your already-upset 10-year-old if you took this terrible advice, LW? "People who claim to be doing it for your own good can trample your boundaries, harass and concern troll you, and consistently infantilize you and YOU JUST HAVE TO TAKE IT. You have no recourse. You just have to let people be awful to you and swallow it, Because Family."

Is that really what you want to teach her? Seriously?

If it's that impossible to talk to your husband's parents like rational human beings (and where the hell is he in this? why is it your job to manage his controlling and critical parents, again?), then you should not visit them. Definitely do not allow them to descend upon you without your consent. The advice says "you can’t make them stop" and that is BULLSHIT. You have the right to tell them to back off, and you can stop seeing them entirely if no other measures work.

OTOH, it is worth it to try to set a boundary verbally! You can escalate if you need to, but if they're people you actually want around you can do them the courtesy of being honest about how they're driving you nuts. Again, their son is the person who should be doing that, not their daughter-in-law. The idea that all emotional management in the family is women's work is gross and ALSO something you should not be modeling for your kids.

(LW doesn't specifically mention a gender or say they're a mom, but it definitely looks like Standard Straight Bullshit going on to me, especially the fact that it's LW writing the letter and agonizing about how to manage the in-laws and the husband is barely mentioned and apparently has no opinions.)

Also, back up your 10-year-old if the grandparents are overbearing again and she snaps. Do NOT act like it's a problem she's creating, if adults are harassing her and she eventually loses her temper about it. They are the problem and you need to present a united front.

Word!

I've seen in my own family that if the grandparents are feeling less stable and mobile themselves, this can color what they see as safe/risky in others (even if they're still taking arguably greater risks themselves!). Still needs to be addressed between the adults.

Oh. My. God.

Okay. I think this is more from the desk of, if not That Bad Advice, at least the Wish Fulfillment Fairy, or possibly the Staircase Wit Troll.

When granny threw a fit at the pool, respond with, "Don't worry, I've been watching them the whole time and I know exactly where the kids are." Possibly with an insertion of something like, "Don't be silly, while you were over there chattering and socializing, I was keeping an eye on my children."

When gramps wibbled at the kids climbing the stairs, try deploying the Ekaterin Vorvayne Vorsoisson patented technique of "What if my kids and I are allies and beleaguered equals in the face of a wibbling pompous twit of a grownup?" and let them answer with, "Jeez, Grampa, it's a freaking staircase, I've been walking for more of my life than I haven't," or whatever other preteen-and-younger snark they please, and smile fondly at them as gramps huffs and puffs and fails to blow the house down. Bonus points for "I've fallen and I can't get up!" type references--- like, "Oh, we know stairs are dangerous for people your age, but we're decades away from that!"

(Actually, the polite version of the first one is not all that bad, and an equally polite version of the second one, delivered by the parent, possibly preferably the offspring of the wibbling in-laws, that's, "Don't worry, the kids have been climbing stairs for more of their lives than they haven't, I think they've got this.")

Also, keep validating for your kids that they've got this and that the grampers' wibbling does not reflect on their competence. (I feel the urge to reference Erickson's stages 2-4 here, because treating a 6yo and a 10yo like they're incompetent little twits who'll break their necks doing daily life tasks is, shall we say, developmentally contraindicated if they're anywhere in the standard overall developmental ranges for their ages.)

ETA: I didn't even see where the 10yo was fed up, but, yeah, this is possibly a very good place to deploy the "allies and beleaguered equals" response. Let the 10yo stand up for herself and support her in it. (See above on Erickson, she's definitely at "industry versus inferiority" and the grampers are an active menace to that--- she should feel like she can handle basic life tasks competently! Telling her she can't is bad for her development and good on her for recognizing that the grampers are wrong like wrong things!)

Edited (See comment) 2022-07-13 05:50 (UTC)

If the grandparents are generally over-anxious and easily alarmed people, it may be worth one (1) conversation with them (and as previous commenters have pointed out, it shouldn't just fall on the women involved to facilitate this) along the lines of "blah blah developmentally, blah blah she's TEN she'll be going to Big School* soon, blah blah importance of taking manageable risks". Addressing it from that point of view is likely to go down better than a "back the fuck off and let me raise my own kids" (though keep that as a nuclear option if you want). I also really agree on letting the kids stand up for themselves here. Like taking their own risks, learning to stand up for themselves is something you should be teaching them. * depending on your location

Cosigned.

I doubt they'd have someone equivalent to the Emperor in their back pockets, alas!

In the strategy session with the kids, telling them explicitly that you trust them to handle stairs and playgrounds and if they do find some novel stair-or-playground related menace, that you trust them to bring it to the attention of a responsible adult, not sure if they'd both grasp that the grandparents are not that in this case, but I bet the 10-year-old would.

The good news is, since the grandparents, unlike Vasily, don't have presumptive custody rights, they probably don't need a Gregor-sized ace in the hole. (And, I know family court judges are a mixed bag, but now I'm imagining the grandparents actually trying to get custody, and there's an exceptionally world-weary family court judge sitting on the bench with her head propped on her hand listening to the grampers' impassioned pleas of "They let them climb on playground equipment, Your Honor! And go up stairs! STAIRS!! And play in a pool with only their mother to watch them!" And the judge is like, "... so you're complaining that your son and his wife are good parents with healthy active children?")

Co-signing the strategy session. And also FSM bless parents who are willing to make it clear to their children that not all the adults in the family are in fact responsible.

Edited (Caught a typo) 2022-07-14 04:41 (UTC)

I would address each inappropriate comment with bewilderment and demand an explanation. Each and every one—don't let one get by without remark.

To grandma: "Why did you rush over here to check on the kids? You know I'm watching them. A is right there swimming, and B is in the bathroom."

To grandpa: "Why do you keep telling them to be careful on the stairs? They're 6 and 10. They walk on stairs every day."

Edited 2022-07-13 11:09 (UTC)

That's definitely what the grandparents' behavior warrants, but if I were LW I might die of exhaustion. One thing I have been learning from the customer service life is that retired people have lots of emotional bandwidth for arguing .

Edited 2022-07-13 13:47 (UTC)

Another letter that should have gone to captain awkward instead of slate.

LW's main defense here is cultivating a sense of not giving a fuck how her in-laws feel or what her in-laws think. She could really use the mantra, "Ok, I'll think about it." And then disregard what they said after thinking about it for an atomic second.
LW has a husband problem as much as she has an in-law problem--it's his job to support her against his parents and it's his job to deal with his parents.
LW and the kids are well within their rights to boycott the grands (and tell them why). Letting the 10 year old say something is a parenting fail because it's on the parents (particularly the husband) to say something and hold strong for their household rules and mores.

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