cereta: Baby Galapagos tortoise hiding in its shell (baby turtle)
Lucy ([personal profile] cereta) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2016-07-25 12:44 pm

Dear Prudence: Contacted By Unwanted Daughter

Note: I tried for five minutes to come up with a neutral way to phrase this trigger warning, and it's just not there. This was the best I could do.


Q. Unwanted daughter: When I was young I was married briefly. I did not want children, and thought I’d made that clear to my husband. I accidentally got pregnant, and he was thrilled. Against my better judgment I had the baby, with the understanding that he would take care of it. I did not like motherhood and when the girl was 2 years old, I divorced her father and moved out of state. I paid court-ordered child support until she turned 18. I had thought that was the end of my interaction with her, but I recently got a letter from her saying she would like to meet. She suggested a visit to my current town.

From the tone of her letter it seems as if she simply wants medical information, which seems acceptable. I would not mind meeting her briefly to tell her things of that nature. Nobody in my current circle knows I have a child, and I would prefer it to remain that way to hold off gossip. When the young woman visits I intend to introduce her as a niece. I believe that would be an acceptable alternative to telling an unfortunate truth. I believe she would accept this. What do you think?

A: I don’t think that’s a good idea. You seem fairly clear-eyed about your limitations as a parent, and I think you should continue your general policy of cold honesty, rather than stooping to deception after a lifetime of ruthless clarity. Write her back and tell her that you have no interest in a relationship, but would be willing to provide her with medical information, if she’s interested. This would save you both from an uncomfortable visit and an unnecessary lie. While you’re not obligated to start feeling compassion for the woman you gave birth to, surely you can see that asking her to participate in a convoluted fiction (why call her your niece? Are you living in Peyton Place?) would force a strange sort of intimacy between the two of you. Partners in a lie are often forced to remain strangely united after the fact, and it’s clear the last thing you’re looking for is to strengthen ties with her.
ellen_fremedon: overlapping pages from Beowulf manuscript, one with a large rubric, on a maroon ground (Default)

[personal profile] ellen_fremedon 2016-07-25 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
She says her 'current' circle, and that she moved out of state when she divorced. I think it's likely that any living family she has is located elsewhere and doesn't know any of her current friends.

If the daughter is really looking for medical information, that suggests that either the LW doesn't have living parents or siblings, or that they haven't kept up contact with the ex and daughter, or else she could have gone to them with her questions. If she's using it as a pretext to try to start a relationship with the LW as an adult, it doesn't really tell us anything.

(And I feel so, so sorry for everyone in this mess. Well, everyone except the ex-husband, who is a coercive douchbag who should have taken the LW at her word 18 years ago.)
fox: my left eye.  "ceci n'est pas une fox." (Default)

[personal profile] fox 2016-07-25 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I ... feel sorry for everyone including the ex-husband. If he pressured and wheedled the LW into carrying the pregnancy to term,* I'll grant you coercive douchebag, but other than that, his being thrilled that she got pregnant doesn't mean he didn't take her at her word. "It's clear to me that my spouse doesn't ever want children" doesn't mean "This marriage is and will always be sexless." And if sex is happening, barring surgical intervention, there's always a chance pregnancy can happen. A vanishingly small chance - I'm certainly not going to start singing about abstinence - but a chance nonetheless.

* She doesn't say how her better judgment was overcome. I'd like to think she made most if not all of her own decisions, even the one or ones she ended up regretting.
ellen_fremedon: overlapping pages from Beowulf manuscript, one with a large rubric, on a maroon ground (Default)

[personal profile] ellen_fremedon 2016-07-25 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Pregnancy can happen. Childbirth doesn't have to. She doesn't say she got pregnant against her better judgement, she says she had the baby against her better judgement--i.e., she wanted an abortion.

If ex-husband wasn't on board with that, then he should never have married someone he knew did not ever want children. Full stop.
Edited (spelling) 2016-07-25 19:58 (UTC)
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2016-07-25 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, this.
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2016-07-25 09:10 pm (UTC)(link)
The husband may have changed his mind. He may have been fully on board with the idea of never having children until he was faced with his wife's pregnancy, only to realize in that moment that not only did he want children after all, he very much wanted the child they had already conceived.

I didn't want children, but my wife did, and I relented. As soon as she became pregnant, I wanted that child more than anything. Now I'm a happy father of two. Sometimes people change, especially on big decisions like children, and changing does not make someone a coercive douchebag. The LW's husband may have been one, but the letter does not say so. It doesn't say what he did.
minoanmiss: A Minoan Harper, wearing a long robe, sitting on a rock (Minoan Harper)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2016-07-25 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Hey, that's awesome! It's always been evident in your comments how invested you are in your kids.

I don't think we have sufficient evidence either way as to what happened between them, and anyway what matters now is how the LW handles dealing with the daughter. I just made the point I did because I think that because neither possibility is unlikely that we cannot really judge the LW's actions *then*.
fox: my left eye.  "ceci n'est pas une fox." (Default)

[personal profile] fox 2016-07-25 09:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Forgive me, but I was pretty specific about acknowledging that it was the decision to carry the pregnancy to term that she said was against her better judgment - and we still don't know how she made her eventual decision. Of course we know what the ex-husband wanted; what we don't know is that he browbeat her into choosing it. I'm assuming a little more agency on her part.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2016-07-25 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I have heard too much about reproductive coercion to be able to think it unlikely she was coerced, but we don't know (and don't need to know) much about their relationship, so I wouldn't say it's flat out guaranteed she was coerced either.

People always say "if sex is happening pregnancy can happen" but, well, isn't that why people should have as free access as possible to contraceptive methods, including surgery? In our sexist society where many doctors have refused to surgically sterilize or prescribe contraceptives for married women, women who have not yet had children, and so on, I can't be sure this woman's choices were all free and unfettered.

Regardless, I feel terrible for her daughter, Regardless of anyone else's cuplability or lack thereof, her birth mother does not want her, and that is very likely to be painful. I hope she has people in her life who are her family.
fox: my left eye.  "ceci n'est pas une fox." (Default)

[personal profile] fox 2016-07-25 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
>isn't that why people should have as free access as possible

Yes, of course.
recessional: a photo image of feet in sparkly red shoes (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2016-07-25 09:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I think Prudie's advice is very good, and honestly I think the bluntness of it is also good: if you've literally gone "I want nothing to do with this child" and walked away, you are not in a situation where delicacy on the subject is really useful (or appropriate).

As to what the daughter does about other relatives, well, bluntly: that's between her and the other relatives? I mean like ~ellen-fremdon the letter implies to me there is no other family, given that the LW was married for several years and with the father of the child for two after the child was born. It would seem difficult to me to hide THAT much from family members without this becoming a much bigger and more tangled story than Occam's razor would encourage imagining; given that, any relatives who weren't as "this is not our relative" as the LW appears to be would presumably have opportunities to maintain their own relationships with the child. Given that she's looking for medical stuff, that implies to me either that there are no other relatives, or that those relatives are just as disinterested as the LW.

I feel very bad for the daughter; I don't think there is any way for this to play out that isn't painful for her.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2016-07-25 09:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I cannot even begin to imagine how this must have hit you. *hugs you a lot* And I am thinking about this interesting situation, about the intersection of "children deserve love and care" and "people,notably those who can bear children, deserve as much control as possibly over their fertility."

*hugs you again*
kaberett: Trans symbol with Swiss Army knife tools at other positions around the central circle. (Default)

[personal profile] kaberett 2016-07-26 04:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, all of this.
eleanorjane: The one, the only, Harley Quinn. (Default)

[personal profile] eleanorjane 2016-07-25 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
...why does she need to introduce the daughter as anything, "niece" or otherwise? If they're meeting up for one occasion for an exchange of facts only, it's not like she's going to bring all her friends by so they can meet the "niece", is she?
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[personal profile] vass 2016-07-26 03:43 am (UTC)(link)
She mentioned she lives in a town. If this is a sufficiently small town, it may be that all her neighbours will know right away that someone's visiting her and want to know who and comment on how much they look alike (if they do). And LW may not be able to deflect these questions without burning through goodwill she doesn't want to lose among people she lives with.
eleanorjane: The one, the only, Harley Quinn. (Default)

[personal profile] eleanorjane 2016-07-26 09:34 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah; I must admit, were I in the LW's position, if I were going to meet I'd want it to be neutral turf - a different nearby town, or somewhere that's not 'home ground' for either of us. I'd consider that almost a default requirement for that sort of meeting.