Dear Abby: Family member really, really doesn't like kids

[cereta]

DEAR ABBY: My brother-in-law (age 75) apparently doesn't like kids. He and my sister are childless. He just told my husband that what he doesn't like about our family gatherings is the attention everyone shows my two granddaughters. (They are 7 and 8.) At a recent gathering, he actually threw down game pieces and stomped off when they approached. Should I sever contact with my sister and him? I know if I tell my son about this, my son will cut ties with them. What parent forces their children on anyone who doesn't like them? Your advice might help. -- FAMILY GAL IN ALABAMA

DEAR FAMILY GAL: Not everyone relates well to kids. That said, your brother-in-law's behavior was appalling. Have a private talk with your sister. Could he be entering a second childhood? Knowing how he feels about children, if you wish to see him and your sister, consider socializing with them separately. If other family members with children invite them to anything other than an adults-only gathering, Sissy and her hubby should politely offer their regrets.

Comments

[cereta]

I am having such flashbacks to all the childfree coms on LJ.

I mostly posted this because it gets to something that's bugged me for a long time: we seem prepared to accept behavior towards kids that would be really, really fucking rude if done to an adult. I'm not talking about things like telling kids what to do or scolding misbehavior. I'm talking about having a kid over for dinner and not taking food preferences into account. Or changing the channel on tv without asking (unless there was some kind of pre-existing agreement). Or, apparently, storming out of a room because they are breathing your air.

Tell the son. Parents should know when someone is treating their children badly.

[shirou]

Yes! You can choose not to have kids. You can choose not to go to places where kids are likely to be. You cannot treat kids badly. Whatever you think of them, they are still people.

[julian]

Second childhood? Pfeh.

This "I will sever ties at the drop of a hat" thing is confusing, though.

Dear people: Invite your BIL-and-sister to things without kids sometimes.

But also, your b-i-l should at least behave politely to the grand-kids. I don't like everyone in the world, and I do try and avoid extensive contact with some people, but if they're at a thing I'm at, I'm polite. (And avoid them when possible.) It's not like it needs to be a Big Thing.

[heavenscalyx]

That read to me as Missing Reasons. Possibly, he’s not just a dick to the kids.

[julian]

Oh, yah. Thank you, that would make... any sense at all out of it.

[cereta]

Yeah, and in the reverse of what I said above, "Is mean to children" is something people will get behind, whereas "jokes about lawyer not being rich" are harder to draw lines around.

[xenacryst]

Indeed. Reading the letter I felt like I read the first half of the first sentence of a long novel and the middle half of some random sentence two thirds of the way through. Like, there was way more not there than there was there. The not there was so thick I couldn't even see the there.

[julian]

I think I had problems noticing that this time because usually, there's this sentence like, "My brother-in-law apparently doesn't like kids. Also, because of [mysterious] other things that have happened [that I won't go into here but will Comment Meaningfully And Mysteriously About], I have issues with him. Should we cut contact?"

[xenacryst]

:giggle: I think that's actually exactly why I noticed it - it threw me out of the story completely and gave me whiplash.

[harpers_child]

I read the "sever ties" thing as this being the latest in a long string of questionable behavior. A straw on a camel's back.

[torachan]

I mean, not liking kids is fine and normal, but throwing things and stomping around and throwing a tantrum because children exist in your vicinity is just being an asshole. He's probably an asshole in other areas of life as well, and even if he isn't, it's okay to not want grown adults in your life who throw tantrums.

[harpers_child]

I'm only bringing this up because it was relevant in my family recently. Has BiL been checked for dementia / Alzheimer's? Is this new behavior or old behavior or old behavior taken to new extremes? I.e. If previously BiL would go to another room than the child, is the throwing of game pieces new "uncharacteristic" behavior?

But also if this guy can't suck it up and be polite to small people than he shouldn't be invited to events small people attend. The small people haven't done anything wrong so they get to go to family events.

[melannen]

Yeah, I feel like if "second childhood" was meant as a euphemism for that, then Abby needed to be clearer.
Probably a good idea. Because if it isn't that, it's weird this is coming up now. If them not having kids together is relevant info, presumably given the ages he and sister have been married at least a couple of decades? Have there never been kids at family events before? Were you not interested in defending your own kids when they were small?


(Mind you it's also entirely possible that this man has spent several decades being treated at every family event like he and his wife are second-class family members and failures as humans because they don't have kids, in which case waiting to crack until the grandkids are old enough to take it is admirable self-control.)

[minoanmiss]

But the kids are the last people who should be punished if the rest of the family has been terrible to the childless couple. They literally got here later than everyone else!

[melannen]

Fair! It's definitely not the kids' fault, whatever's going on.

But I don't get the impression he was punishing them? All we get in the letter is that he was angry, so he left the situation, and later complained to another adult in private. If he'd screamed at them or even told him he didn't want them there or something, I would be a lot less on his side! But all we get is that he was upset and went away quietly. It's definitely rude and childish, and he is not a guy I would marry, but "give yourself space so you don't take it out on others" is anger management step 1 for a lot of people. This doesn't seem to be a guy who's trying to take it out on the kids if that really is the worst that's happened. And "sometimes people are rude and it's not about you" is, I feel like, something 7-8 years olds ought to be old enough to start to learn.

But there's definitely missing reasons on one side or another here, because you don't threaten to cut off Uncle George because he was rude once unless there's bigger issues somewhere else. I suspect it's on both sides.

[minoanmiss]

This could be used as a teachable moment, yeah. I had been thinking that as a kid i would have been really distressed if a family elder acted that way but part of the reason I would have been distressed would have been that I would have been reasonably terrified my parents would blame me. Other people have an opportunity to do better!

I do think that is a churlish way to treat kids, though. No matter what bullshit their parents or grandparents may have pulled.

[melannen]

"Churlish" is an excellent word for this. And my response to this is definitely colored by the fact that "someone being a grouch to you isn't your fault, but it means they want you to leave them alone" is a lesson I was taught via uncles (who in retrospect probably have veteran-related trauma issues) at large family gatherings at that age, that has served me well in later life!

Meanwhile I am currently dealing with a coworker who thinks the correct response to a customer saying "I can't do this right now" and walking away is to follow them and keep talking, and doesn't understand why this goes poorly for her, so the importance of that lesson is much on my mind!

[minoanmiss]

a coworker who thinks the correct response to a customer saying "I can't do this right now" and walking away is to follow them and keep talking,

ai ya. Good luck with that!

[torachan]

He threw things and stomped off because children existed near him. That is not normal. For any reason.

[lilysea]

eeeesh.

I find it quite stressful to be around children under 10 because

loud/high pitched shouting/screaming/crying = migraine trigger

touching me without asking = bad for chronic pain and PTSD

lots of quick random movement can be bad for PTSD

and I think brother-in-law (age 75) is being a dick.

The appropriate thing is to POLITELY excuse yourself to go elsewhere, and/or politely say "please don't touch me"

[ellen_fremedon]

Or just don't come to events if you know the kids will be there and you're not up to dealing with them. I also find kids really stressful to interact with, and I don't go places where I'll have to do that unless I know I have the spoons for it.

[conuly]

At a recent gathering, he actually threw down game pieces and stomped off when they approached.

If this is the first anybody's hearing of his hatred of children, this cannot have previously been typical behavior. I'd be worried about the onset of dementia, at his age. It probably isn't causing him to dislike kids, but it surely can be causing him to lose the filter.