Ask a Manager: I had a fling with my new boss's ex-husband

[minoanmiss]

Long.


I had a one-night fling with my new boss’s then-husband

The company I work for is going through a merger with two others. Some people have taken retirement, but other than that no one has been let go. Locations and departments are changing, and people are moving around and being promoted.

I am about to have a new boss. We have a history. I used to work with my new boss’s husband. We had a one-night fling and somehow she found out. She divorced him and it was not amicable. I have a child with her ex-husband. The two of us share custody, but we’re not together and have never been beyond that one time. I was dragged into the divorce proceedings and she went out of her way to humiliate me. She is still angry about it and she took her ex-husband to the cleaners.

I asked HR if there is any other job I could take but they said there isn’t. They also say my concerns are not valid because my new boss is a professional. I can’t afford to be without a job but I also can’t have her as a boss. HR has said their decision is final. They won’t give me another job or let me go and if I quit I can’t get unemployment. What should I do, do you have any advice as to how I can convince HR to change their minds?

It sounds to me like the company doesn’t value you enough to feel like dealing with this. They have to know that this is going to be untenable for you (and frankly, I would think it would be untenable for your new boss too), and the fact that they’re declining to intervene in any way says to me that they’re probably counting on you to quit.

Maybe I’m wrong and they’re really just that clueless, but it’s hard to imagine an HR person looking at this situation — where someone will be managing the person who her husband had an affair and a child with — and thinking that it’ll all work out fine. I’d put money on them assuming/hoping you’ll leave over it.

That said, if you’ve only talked to someone relatively junior in HR, you could try escalating to someone more senior. But really, you might be better off trying to negotiate severance in exchange for leaving quietly, and that might be a better outcome than working at a company with someone who you have this history with, even if you’re not working directly for her.

[NB: OP is "Rachel - Letter #1" in comments]

Update #1:

I ended up quitting rather than working for her. I appreciated your response and all of the kind responses in the comments, but there was no way I could work for her when the company had clearly sided with right her off the bat and when she still had it out for me after all this time. Before she started her management position, she was here for a meeting. She saw me by the elevators and said the universe must be on her side since she was offered a chance to manage one of the people who had “shattered” her life before. There were no witnesses to this conversation and I knew then I had to get out before she took over.

I wish I could say I have found another job and everything is great, but that is unfortunately not the case. I had to move in with my mom and dad. I’m working as a temp until I can find a permanent full time job. I did have an interview but the hiring manager “saw red flags” when I was unable to provide a current reference from either job I have had in the past (the one where I worked with the father of my child and the one I just quit) and only had a single reference for 12 years of work in the form of my now retired former manager. They ultimately decided to go with another candidate. Another company I applied at “decided not to move forward with my candidacy” after they called both of the companies I had worked at in the past even though I didn’t have any references from either one. I don’t know what they were told but I imagine it cannot be good as I have no friends at either place and did not leave on good terms.

The father of my child is also working temp jobs. He has had a tough time finding work since his divorce. He is also living with his mom and dad. Neither of us has a car, I cannot afford it and his ex-wife got his in the divorce, so we rely on public transportation or our parents. Things have always been amicable between us, we have always shared custody with no child support because of the equal time, but for now our child stays with whichever one of us or our parents/other relatives are available for child care and we try to help each other financially as much as possible so our child isn’t affected (he is still dealing with the fallout from his bankruptcy and his ex-wife having his wages garnished instead of accepting a payment plan). Both of us are focused on getting back on our feet and giving our child a stable life. I’m thankful we both have family who helps whenever they can.

Even though things aren’t going great at the moment, I still want to thank you for your response and the perspective you provided and all of the people in the comments who were kind and supportive. I go back and re-read them whenever I am having a really bad day.

[OP is Rachel the LW* in comments]

Update #2

I have a (regular, non-seasonal) full-time job and so has the father of my child. They are retail jobs which only pay minimum wage right now but it is better than nothing. My main hope is to get some good references from this since I only have one at the moment (having left both previous jobs I have had because of what happened and all the rumors and things I mentioned in the comments of my other update).

I have gotten over the fact I will never work in that field again and am over it now. I am extremely thankful both the father of my child and myself have a good support system, parents who took us back in and help with our child along with siblings and other extended family. Our child has a stable life because of them.

His ex who would have been my boss won a big award for a project she led earlier this year and has been promoted as far as I have heard. I haven’t had any contact from her since I left that job, she hasn’t crossed my path at all.

Thanks to everyone who had a kind comment for me.

Your site was helpful when I was crafting my resume and going through interviews. Thanks so much for all your help.

NB two more bits, from the LW in the original post's comments:

The office I work at is closing. My job will be at a different location under this manager.... Both jobs she was offered were at the same location, she took this one right after she found out I would be reporting to her. Given the history I doubt she has good intentions.

And a bit more elaboration:

It’s been a few years since everything happened. When I was subpoenaed to testify in the divorce, she sent someone to serve me at the hospital just after I had given birth, in front of my family, friends, colleagues and the staff while paying the guy extra to loudly and publicy announce I was being served because I knowingly had a baby with a married man. At that point I had not told anyone yet that he was the father (my colleagues) or that he was married (everyone else). I had to answer questions about the fling in court and once it was settled she posted my answers on social media. I’m not in a long term relationship with her ex-husband (and have never been) but we share custody no problem. We have always been amicable. He went bankrupt as a result of the divorce. She went to court to make sure he didn’t get out of the settlement. She successfully fought to have his wages garnished instead of accepting the payment plan he offered, even though the payment plan would have gotten her more money in the end. It’s been rough for him and she hasn’t let up on either one of us. They shared a car and she got it in the divorce. He asked her to wait two weeks because he needed the car for his job and in response she got a court order to have it repossessed from the parking lot at his job. She was offered an equivalent job in another department and she took this job when she found out she would be managing me. HR says she will be professional but given how things have gone in the past I can’t work for her.

Comments

Would anyone like some popcorn?

[minoanmiss]

In both the original post and the two updates there were lively discussions that basically boiled down to, "how far is vengeance justified?" Interesting question.

I know what I think, but that's not why I posted it here.

Re: Would anyone like some popcorn?

[rmc28]

I can't imagine being that vindictive, it must be exhausting.

Re: Would anyone like some popcorn?

[angelofthenorth]

My thought was to wonder if the manager had wanted children and couldn't have them. That would be enough to intensify her sense of entitlement to leave scorched earth.

Re: Would anyone like some popcorn?

[movingfinger]

Or possibly she wanted children and he said he didn't.

Re: Would anyone like some popcorn?

[green_grrl]

If no kids, I don’t understand why she would get a big divorce settlement, then. She has the good job, the car, and is presumably affording housing. He’s under-employed, car-less and house-less.

Re: Would anyone like some popcorn?

[rmc28]

Mmm, but very unfair on the child, who didn't choose any of this, but whose earth is also being scorched.

Ethically, I think that's my biggest objection.

And while clearly the ex is well-regarded by her company I would have serious concerns about that management relationship, however "professional" I think the manager could be, in the same way I would be about people who are managing close friends or family or exes.

(I'm in the weird position right now of having regular professional interaction with my ex-boyfriend who I broke up with nearly 20 years ago, who does a great deal of work for the team I now manage. I believe I'm very professional and I don't hate him at all but it's still kind of weird and I'm hyper-aware of how much influence I now have over his work. I would have serious reservations about moving into a position where I had formal management power over him. I would not regard that situation as "the universe being on my side".)

Re: Would anyone like some popcorn?

[julian]

So, if you dial down the LW's perspective by 50% and, say, posit that the elevator conversation happened in a slightly different way... *For me*, I think it's reasonable for the ex-manager to understand that she couldn't manage the LW, not with their history.

And the not-getting-jobs thing is, from one perspective, not actually the ex-manager's fault. (Even the second one could be red flags even if they just said "we can't talk about her, she worked here, life's fine.")

HOWever, the divorce settlement is a bridge too far, for me. That's vicious.

Anyway, in general, I'm not a fan of lasting revenge. Be petty to the person who hurt you sometimes, if it'll help you get through things, but don't be petty with consequences. (This is not my grown-up take, my grown-up take says almost the same thing but with more words.)

[movingfinger]

I feel that there are likely to be some missing reasons and omitted events in this whole situation.

[minoanmiss]

Quite likely, both because LW included many more chunks in the discussion that I couldn't and because LW is telling the story. But if she is at least not adding any untruth (that it was a one-time MASSIVE lapse in Judgement not an ongoing affair, and so on, and that the "yay I get to torture you for shattering my life!" conversation actually happened), I think it's interesting to consider what the ethical limits are to the ex-wife's reaction.

I also admit I'm not monogamous. If I were and my partner had sex with someone once and we'd otherwise been okay I would like to think my reaction would be "discussions, both facilitated and just us two", not immediate divorce. But I'm not, so I'm probably missing something.

[angelofthenorth]

I think the existence of the child is the point, rather than the fling.

[minoanmiss]

Hmm. Interesting. I know more than one couple where one of the partners has a child with someone else and... of course I know varying amounts but never the whole story, but I know several of them worked things out for varying levels thereof. That doesn't mean it can't be a dealbreaker, though.

[conuly]

I think it's interesting to consider what the ethical limits are to the ex-wife's reaction.

Putting ethics aside, I've always heard that living well is the best revenge. And so it is! She could have made LW feel even more uncomfortable by simply being overbearingly forgiving. Instead, she's made her and Ex feel vindicated in their belief that she's spiteful, awful, and possibly unhinged. No matter what the backstory is, "being the bigger person" might have been more satisfying in the long run.

[cereta]

Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them as much. - Possibly Oscar Wilde, I dunno

[jadelennox]

Miss Manners is a big proponent of how much it drives your antagonists up the wall if you're mature and courteous. (I think she's sometimes right, but not if the person you're being courteous to has more power or is a narcissist; then they take it as their due.)

[cereta]

I have noticed that one of the best ways to drive someone in pretty much any online discussion nuts is to remain unflaggingly cheerful and polite. I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy engaging in said tactic on Twitter (which for some reason, I just find myself frequently not giving much of a fuck on, in the sense that I almost never get truly upset).

[harpers_child]

On one hand possible boss could have lied to HR and been as vindictive as LW says.

On the other hand, you worked in the same field for 12 years and only have one reference?

On the third hand, how has LW never learned how to document shit for HR?

And then I fell over having tripped over all the missing stuff in this letter. Like anything that would make LW look wrong. All these terrible things happen to her, but they're not ever her fault.

[angelofthenorth]

She sounds like she was someone who was competent enough, but not spectacular - she was content to stay where she was, to work for the same manager - I don't think that's a crime or missing reasons.

I know plenty of people who don't know the rules of Document!Document!Document! who are in their 50s and 60s and who think that their OK record will save them. I can well believe it of someone in their 30s who think shit is what happens to other people.

And the vindictive ex-wife's behaviour is nothing new either.

[green_grrl]

It’s hard to document a she said/she said a snide comment in the elevator.

But I do agree, how hard is it for her to have no decent references at all from her work history.

[heavenscalyx]

I wonder if she's in a profession that really emphasizes that it has to be a manager who is the reference. In my experiences in IT and biotech, they'll take refs from folks who weren't your direct supervisors as long as they're senior and have worked with you. I've been a reference for my colleagues more times than I can count.

[tielan]

Ah, this explains a little bit to me. I'm also in IT, and I'm pretty sure I can get references quite easily from a variety of people I've worked with in the past.

[julian]

If she worked at the same two places for quite a long time, as she did, and the culture of her field is to ask only managers, easily.

If not, though, that's one of the things that stood out to me.

[minoanmiss]

In a couple of the bits I didn't quote the LW did acknowledge that she was wrong to sleep with her then-coworker. I almost -- it's hard to strike a balance, not least in text, between "This was a major misdeed on my part" and "I do not deserve to be punished forever for it."

Oh, and she noted that several of her former supervisors were retiring at around the same time. How much that precludes their being references is of course a question.

[eva_rosen]

Considering the child's father seems to have lost his job way before LW, and that the three of them seem to work on the same field (for the vindictive ex turning out as the new manager), I think the vindictive ex must be very well regarded on the job and maybe that's why they had so many consecuences over what happened and why LW couldn't get those references. It might not even be the vindictive ex's direct doing, but other coworkers sucking up to her/taking her side. Dudes don't usually get so socially/profesionally destroyed over cheating, specially not by peers.

[laurajv]

Yeah. I have absolutely worked with people who could have torpedoed my entire career, and would have, and tried. The only reason it didn't work is that I was returning to somewhere I worked before, with a boss who had known me since I was a teenager, and who decided to ignore the things my Evil Former Boss said because they were so at odds with what she knew about me. If I'd been trying to be hired by anyone else, I would have been in real trouble.