agonyaunt | (no subject)

Dear Carolyn: Self-admitted crabby old broad here. My newish next-door neighbors are 24/7 noise. While the apartment is a studio, I can hear at least two adults and two children — one infant, one toddler.

The kids are up at all hours — either screaming in delight and running around or wailing in misery. The adults yell all the time. Movies, TV and music all play at incredible volume, and now a dog was added to the mix. It howls and cries whenever they leave it alone.

I don’t want to be That Person, but I’m tired of asking them, at 1 a.m., to turn down the TV, music, etc. Do I report them to the condo board? They are tenants. I’m hesitant, as I worry this studio may be the only space they can afford, but also frustrated by the noise.

— Crabby Old Broad

Crabby Old Broad: I do feel for you, because noise invades your home and peace of mind. But there is no way two adults, an infant, a toddler and a dog in a studio apartment will ever be quiet. No way. So I think your hope they will ever be quiet is compounding your torment. It will never be quiet.

Your options now are whatever’s left after you accept that. Move? Complain to (or join) the condo board? Invest in soundproofing and noise remediation? Ride it out? (Since the chances they’re in this for the long haul seem slim.) If you stay, then you will probably want to use various options in combination — saving the condo-board complaints for the egregious things they can control, like music and adult-yelling volume at 1 a.m.

To report a noisy baby at 1 a.m. is just … crabby. Also — do you like dogs? Maybe there’s an opportunity for grace here. A crying dog is miserable, and you’re miserable from the dog’s crying, so maybe you two can quietly upgrade each other’s lives when your neighbors go out. None of these options are great, even stacked, but all of them seem better to me than the suspense of waiting in vain for the racket to stop.

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The real villains here are the people who decided to save a few bucks by not installing adequate soundproofing between units in the first place, followed by the people who have been jacking up housing prices so that the only place a family with two kids can rent is a studio apartment.

But yeah, there's no excuse to turn the TV up so that your neighbors can hear it during normal quiet hours.

To some extent the kid and dog noises may be inevitable. The yelling and TV aren't. Also, four people may not be technically allowed in a studio, though it's an unpleasant rule to enforce and runs up against discrimination laws. I think there's generally an exemption for babies under a year, but the toddler would count as an occupant who's supposed to have more square footage (going by my state law here, but presuming there are similar laws in other places).

Ehh, some of it could be the type of construction - for example, there's a huge difference in the way sound will travel in a wood frame building vs steel frame with concrete slab. In my area there are sound dampening requirements for new construction, but older construction could be grandfathered in or some noise will be in excess of the capacity the building materials have.

This is terrible advice.

I have worked in property management for 15 years, and three of those years were specifically community association (condo) management. I've worked with 20 different condo associations, and ALL of them had rules regarding noise, specifically that noise from your unit was not to disturb the right others have to quiet enjoyment of their homes. It doesn't matter whether the resident is an owner or a renter - they are still supposed to be held to the same rules.

So, professional opinion here:
- I was always advise talking to the neighbors first; from the letter, it seems that LW has already tried that multiple times.
- If LW knows the owner of the unit, she should try contacting them; if she doesn't know the owner, she should ask her property manager (if she has one) or the condo board (if they are self-managed) to please get her in touch with the owner of the unit.
- If LW talks to the owner of the unit and the problem is not resolved, then LW should approach the property manager and/or the board to say "This is the issue, this is what I've tried, this is what is still happening." Quote the Rules & Regulations as appropriate. Provide evidence if possible (I unfortunately know first-hand that it can be very hard to accurately capture noise levels from an adjacent unit).
- If AND ONLY IF the LW hears obvious abuse/violence, call the police.

I feel for LW deeply. This would make the place unlivable for me.

Sounds like the dog was a recent addition too. These people are just deeply inconsiderate neighbors. My bet would be on the dog never getting trained out of constant barking either.

1) I have massive sympathy for a family with young children who is forced to live in a studio.

2) If they didn’t have the dog when they moved in, which it sounds like they didn’t, they had no business adopting a dog.

3) Noise from the children is unavoidable and should not be reported. Noise from music and TV, especially late at night, absolutely is under the control of the tenants, and if they won’t be respectful about it, should be reported.

If the LW has spoken with their neighbors multiple times, and they won’t keep it down to a considerate level, then it’s time to escalate.

Again, if this were just an issue of the amount of noise that kids and a family in a small space can’t avoid making, that would be one thing — but nobody needs to blare loud TV and music at 1 AM.