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Dear Carolyn: I was very fortunate that my parents raised me to appreciate simplicity and avoid greed and excess. Now I’m in love with a wonderful woman whose family lives what I consider a toxic lifestyle.
Examples: They serve too much food for parties and holidays — more than can be eaten not just on that day, but on several days; they exchange so many useless gifts at every giving occasion (Christmas, birthdays, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc.); their closets are stuffed with more clothing and shoes than you could wear in a lifetime; their home is overflowing with furniture, tchotchkes and other useless things.
Since we’ve gotten more serious, I’ve mentioned just a couple of times to my girlfriend how damaging her parents’ and siblings’ lifestyle is. Recently, she snapped at me to let up on being “so judgmental” about her family. I always thought we were on the same wavelength, since she herself lives pretty simply. Now I’m afraid her more minimalist lifestyle is because she’s just starting out, and she’ll eventually adopt her family’s behavior as she gets more successful.
I love her and don’t want to break up, but I’d hate to marry and raise children with someone who would expect to live like that. It seems like a sore subject, and I don’t want to harp on it, but I do need some reassurance. How should I ask about this?
— Worried
Worried: It’s a “sore subject” because you’re being “so judgmental.” So, SO judgmental.
A hypothetical: It’s one thing to be different. Okay. You do you, I do me. Maybe we work together, maybe we don’t. At least we can talk about it. It’s another for you to look at my family and think: greedy, excessive, toxic, too much, useless, useless, damaging.
Uhh. Maybe we can work together, but you know what? Don’t bother. I’d rather tell you where to stick your pristine simplicity.
Here’s the fun part. I am actually inclined to agree with you that too much stuff is problematic. It’s a waste of resources, money, space, even time — since more stuff means more hours on stuff management. Cluttered spaces can be distracting, depressing, hard to keep clean. The planet weeps. You’re not wrong on much of your substance. And credit to your parents for that, sure.
But oh, my goodness. Bang-bang-banging on this one note — this very worthy note! — left many thoughtful, persuasive notes of subtlety, nuance and respect unplayed. Such as: Big food and gifts are central to some families, traditions, cultures. Your minimalism won’t land with these audiences the way it lands with you.
Are some of these people adherents to “greed and excess,” sure. But hardly all. And unless your mind is open to the many complicated emotional connections involved across generations, you’re going to miss the fact that some people don’t think it’s love unless the table legs tremble with the weight of the food.
Someone who sticks to such beliefs is probably not the right partner for you. Totally fair. But someone from that tradition who remains sympathetic to it is also not the devil. Or reared by one. If none of this moves you, then that’s your prerogative — but it’ll make it tough to move forward with your girlfriend’s family and possibly with your girlfriend, if only your extreme will suffice.
Either way, you two really need to talk about this. For that, allow me an emphatic yikes to seeking “reassurance” — which sets conversation up as a test you expect her to pass. Instead, seek understanding. All along, you’ve assumed. Listen and learn instead. Then decide what you’ll do.
Link
Examples: They serve too much food for parties and holidays — more than can be eaten not just on that day, but on several days; they exchange so many useless gifts at every giving occasion (Christmas, birthdays, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc.); their closets are stuffed with more clothing and shoes than you could wear in a lifetime; their home is overflowing with furniture, tchotchkes and other useless things.
Since we’ve gotten more serious, I’ve mentioned just a couple of times to my girlfriend how damaging her parents’ and siblings’ lifestyle is. Recently, she snapped at me to let up on being “so judgmental” about her family. I always thought we were on the same wavelength, since she herself lives pretty simply. Now I’m afraid her more minimalist lifestyle is because she’s just starting out, and she’ll eventually adopt her family’s behavior as she gets more successful.
I love her and don’t want to break up, but I’d hate to marry and raise children with someone who would expect to live like that. It seems like a sore subject, and I don’t want to harp on it, but I do need some reassurance. How should I ask about this?
— Worried
Worried: It’s a “sore subject” because you’re being “so judgmental.” So, SO judgmental.
A hypothetical: It’s one thing to be different. Okay. You do you, I do me. Maybe we work together, maybe we don’t. At least we can talk about it. It’s another for you to look at my family and think: greedy, excessive, toxic, too much, useless, useless, damaging.
Uhh. Maybe we can work together, but you know what? Don’t bother. I’d rather tell you where to stick your pristine simplicity.
Here’s the fun part. I am actually inclined to agree with you that too much stuff is problematic. It’s a waste of resources, money, space, even time — since more stuff means more hours on stuff management. Cluttered spaces can be distracting, depressing, hard to keep clean. The planet weeps. You’re not wrong on much of your substance. And credit to your parents for that, sure.
But oh, my goodness. Bang-bang-banging on this one note — this very worthy note! — left many thoughtful, persuasive notes of subtlety, nuance and respect unplayed. Such as: Big food and gifts are central to some families, traditions, cultures. Your minimalism won’t land with these audiences the way it lands with you.
Are some of these people adherents to “greed and excess,” sure. But hardly all. And unless your mind is open to the many complicated emotional connections involved across generations, you’re going to miss the fact that some people don’t think it’s love unless the table legs tremble with the weight of the food.
Someone who sticks to such beliefs is probably not the right partner for you. Totally fair. But someone from that tradition who remains sympathetic to it is also not the devil. Or reared by one. If none of this moves you, then that’s your prerogative — but it’ll make it tough to move forward with your girlfriend’s family and possibly with your girlfriend, if only your extreme will suffice.
Either way, you two really need to talk about this. For that, allow me an emphatic yikes to seeking “reassurance” — which sets conversation up as a test you expect her to pass. Instead, seek understanding. All along, you’ve assumed. Listen and learn instead. Then decide what you’ll do.
Link
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As for the gifts/ house clutter, some of us are just maximalists. It's okay for people to live differently than you live, LW. (Also hoarding spread out over a family like that is a sign of serious generational trauma that takes time to heal. Or could be a sign of financial insecurity.)
Teel Dear: This LW needs to spend some time doing some serious self reflection on why they're so judgemental of non-minimalists. LW's girlfriend deserves better.
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Or there may be a genetic component, as there seems to be with so many things.
Though, to be honest, LW is so freaking annoying that I'm not willing to accept that these people are borderline hoarders just on their say-so. "Stuffed" and "overflowing" could mean almost anything from somebody determined to be hostile and judgmental.
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LW is absolutely a non-reliable narrator.
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