Is it just me or are these parents awful?

[conuly]

Dear Eric: I grew up with highly educated parents, with a strong work ethic. Because of my and my also well-educated and accomplished husband’s many years of hard work, we have been able to provide well for our children. Unfortunately, all of them have had health difficulties from birth, and instead of growing and recovering, they each developed long-term substance abuse. They barely got their high school diplomas and only one has made it through two years of college and wants to give up because she is tired of trying.

Meanwhile, my husband and I have continued to work hard to cover all their needs. We are way past retirement age and have our own health problems. We are exhausted. And very worried about our children who seem incapable and uninterested in supporting themselves.

How on earth are they all going to be able to manage? We feel sure any money they inherit will disappear because they are ignorant of investing, taxes, managing finances, adverse to chores, etc., and refuse to learn. They all used to be smart enough but now they seem so stupid. (We get along and even have laughs but can’t connect on anything serious or important.) We are wondering how we can leave our hard-earned money to them just for them to waste it and continue to decline in the way they already are?

How can we persuade our adult children to go to and complete college and become financially literate (and responsible) despite being older? Two are working at menial jobs and one will be limited in his job prospects, and one is not working at all.

It’s painful to spend time with them because we don’t have any interests or values in common, and they are completely uninterested and ignorant about almost any subject. We are grieving and we are ashamed of our children; their former schoolmates are growing and thriving. Are we asking too much or too little?

– Disappointed Parent

Dear Parent: Persuasion time is over; it’s time to protect your children from themselves and protect your assets from frivolous spending. Talk to an estate lawyer about setting up a trust for your kids. Find out what kind of stipulations you can put on the funds. And then think through what you really need to feel comfortable leaving them money. It may be finishing school, but I encourage you to try to separate your expectations from the reality of your children’s lives and abilities.

You’re experiencing a lot of grief reconciling the lives that you wanted for yourself and your kids with the lives that you have. Some of that grief is coming out in judgment and resentment. Your children are responsible for their actions (or inactions) but they’re not responsible for your resentment. Try to free yourself from some of this by speaking to a counselor about what’s going on. A family therapist will also be helpful.

Additionally, consider Al-Anon or SMART Recovery Family meetings, if you don't already go. Parenting people who struggle with substance abuse can lead to codependent relationships and toxic relationships. Talking to others about what you’re feeling will help you to separate what you can control about your kids’ lives from what you must learn to accept.

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Comments

[conuly]

Is LW blaming these kids for not being cured from the vague "health problems from birth"?

Also, like... if your kids have been struggling with these health problems and substance abuse, maybe focus on that instead of accusing them of "being tired of trying" in college?

They all used to be smart enough but now they seem so stupid. (We get along and even have laughs but can’t connect on anything serious or important.)

Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to spend time trying to have a serious or important conversation with LW either.

Anyway, Eric's right - despite the fact that LW sounds terrible, the kids should not just get the money straight out. Have it put in a carefully planned "spendthrift trust".

[lilysea]

Yeah, if the health problems include one or more of

ADHD
Autism
Anxiety
Chronic Pain
Depression

the substance problems may be self-medication to try to cope with the symptoms of the health problems

[conuly]

Or the symptoms of having terrible parents....

[lilysea]

Yes, that too!

But I've seen so much written by experts about how people

with ADHD/Autism/Anxiety/Depression are much more likely to run into problems with alcohol

than people without

[princessofgeeks]

Yeah, this seems like the tip of the iceberg.

I'm thinking way back to when my dad was clearly experience major mental illness but in the 1950s his parents had no idea what to do or how to help him and were actually ashamed of his condition. His brother was an alcoholic and almost died at least twice that I know of because of drinking so much, and his parents never talked about that either and were quite ashamed.

I think the advice to go to Al Anon and/or get counseling is good advice. But I just have a feeling there is way more to this than what's in the letter. The parents clearly have no idea what is going on with their kids. And it's very possible the kids have given up trying to talk to them about anything important!

[conuly]

I'm sorry about your father's story.

[princessofgeeks]

It was awful. But then he met my mom and they took care of each other for 64 years, and in his forties he got good treatment for his bipolar disorder that really permanently helped him and the rest of his life was wonderful.

He died a year ago.

They used to say that They Paid in Advance and thank goodness they had a wonderful retirement and traveled a lot and all their dreams came true.

So it turned out good.

[ashbet]

1) Yes, kids with substance abuse issues should have a trust with a financial manager.

2) If ALL FOUR of their kids are having the same struggles, I'm side-eyeing their parenting. Particularly in light of the "health difficulties since birth" -- are any of those difficulties intellectual or learning disabilities, which might make it harder to follow in their parents' financial/educational footsteps?

3) Gen X and Millennials (I'm guessing that's the age range of the kids, because the parents are past retirement age) face an *extremely* different financial, educational, housing, and employment reality than previous generations, and a lot of older people do NOT get it.

4) LW, you are not hiding your disappointment from your kids as well as you think you are, and that is inevitably going to affect your relationship.

I think that LW would benefit from meeting with a financial/trust advisor, but ALSO a therapist who has expertise in treating parents of kids with various kinds of struggles, because the kids are DEFINITELY aware of the judgment from their parents, and I think that LW and their spouse would benefit from getting a more realistic perspective on what their expectations should be, and how to deal with their feelings about their children's lives not turning out the way they had hoped.

[conuly]

If ALL FOUR of their kids are having the same struggles, I'm side-eyeing their parenting.

Right? I mean, it could come down to genetics - anxiety and depression have a strong genetic component, presumably their health issues are also inherited (or else the family just has terrible bad luck) - but it sure doesn't make the parents look great.

[cimorene]

Exactly! I see a pattern here...

[castiron]

Collectively, my parents' grandkids have far more struggles than their kids. Are we kids worse parents than Mom and Dad were? Possibly, but also we're raising our kids in a different environment with different pressures. (When I was a young adult, I could live frugally in a one-bedroom apartment on a minimum-wage salary, and I was able to buy a house on an administrative assistant's salary. Today a full-time minimum wage job won't cover the rent on a one-bedroom apartment in my city, let alone any other expenses.)

That said, LW sounds really focused on a particular view of success for their kids. "Menial jobs" -- is this someone who'd think their kid's a failure if they became a successful HVAC technician, for example?

And while I have concerns about how well my kids will navigate adulthood (and will consider it a roaring success if one of them manages to graduate from high school, let alone get any college degree), if they don't know how to do chores etc. it's because Spouse and I didn't teach them.

[ashbet]

I keep trying to explain this to my (Silent Generation) mother – even though my daughter and I are fairly close in age, the economic situation has changed so drastically, particularly when it comes to housing.

I was able to rent a crappy apartment with a retail job, and save up to buy a townhouse as an admin assistant/secretary — that is not even remotely an option for people her age.

[ethelmay]

Guessing the parents spent too much time/attention on work and not enough on their kids. But these are difficult times, and many folks are struggling to find work and feeling despair even if they otherwise have no major struggles.

Also, I suspect a lot of folks think of substance abuse as a class issue - if you just had more education and a better job you wouldn't be around the low-class folks who do drugs - and take no account of upperclass people doing more expensive street or prescription drugs and more expensive booze.

[jadelennox]

The core answer of "you need a trust" was the one I hoped would be in the answer, and I am glad it was. I assume these parents know that no matter what the missing reasons might be, the relationship is unlikely to substantially change at this juncture. Leave them an inheritance via a trust (or don't, if you want to be a dick about it; you could leave it all to the Battersea Dogs' Home if you feel so inclined), and go the therapy or al-anon or something about your grief. That's all you can do.

[petrea_mitchell]

I'm wondering what the "menial jobs" two of the kids are working are. Are they crappy jobs for crappy pay, or are they just in non-college-degreed careers that maybe they like and LW doesn't think are appropriate for their class?

[princessofgeeks]

I'm wondering this too.

[ethelmay]

Among my five sibs and me there are two PhDs, one ABD, one master's degree, and two profession-qualifying bachelor's degrees. All of us have followed some profession (in the snobby "not a trade" meaning). We have also racked up a total of decades of experience as cook, pastry chef, waiter, ER secretary, ship scaler, ship fitter, printer, metal worker, lighting fabricator, upholsterer and refinisher, temp office worker, door-to-door vacuum cleaner sales person, etc. That all mattered, too. (Okay, maybe not the vacuum cleaners.)

who raised these children anyway?

[redbird]

It seems unlikely that the LW and her hushand have no interests or values in common with any of their children, even though the only interests LW mentions are money and formal education. I suspect that what the parents want to talk about is status markers--not "what cool things dod you learn?" or what their children enjoy doing, but grades and that the children aren't in college.

I'm not surprised that children who "have had health problems from birth," and are working menial jobs, are ignorant of investing: what would they be investing with?

Re: who raised these children anyway?

[ethelmay]

It's quite common for well-off parents to fund their working adult children's IRAs. Probably either these parents don't trust their kids to actually put the money in an IRA, or the kids themselves are saying exasperatedly that they don't need a goddamn IRA, they need to pay their goddamn bills.

Re: who raised these children anyway?

[redbird]

True, but something like that could easily work as the parents having the children create accounts with Fidelity, and investing the money in something like an index fund. But I suspect "how can we make them want to become financially literate?" means they want the kids to spend a bunch of time and energy studying.

I don't know if LW or her husband have the wit to say something like "this is in addition to your birthday/Christmas presents, so the money will be there later, without you having to think about it," and not make it "you don't need new $whatever, so we're giving you an IRA instead."

[sushiflop]

I am not going to argue that it's impossible for a parent to raise a deadbeat kid (as it were) - but all of them? Every single child that this couple had? Minimum two, implied to be more if I'm reading it right??

If you meet one asshole they might be the problem. If everyone you meet is an asshole, there's a good chance you are the problem.