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agonyaunt2025-04-08 09:24 am
minoanmiss) wrote in agonyaunt2025-04-08 09:24 am
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Dear Prudence: The Healing ex-Incel
Dear Prudence,
I am 28 and a former incel, and I’ve been working on my issues for over a year now. I went from a point where I had no friends, just sat in my parent’s basement and worked/played video games/bullied people online, to a point where I volunteer a lot in my community, go to local events, am part of a bunch of clubs and organizations, and have a small group of friends I hang out with regularly. I am really ashamed of the beliefs I held earlier. I don’t think I ever acted on them in person but I was definitely a toxic bully in a few different online forums. I still have a lot of self-esteem issues because I’m 260 pounds and look like a frog, but I’ve been on two first dates from dating apps, where everything is based on looks, so at least a few women find me attractive. I have also started to understand that appearance is not the sole reason for most relationships (or even the primary reason). However, due to my past, I am woefully behind in managing healthy social and romantic relationships.
I volunteer for an organization a few weekends a month where we make science and math fun for elementary school kids. After the kids leave we usually go get coffee or something together. Once we were invited to someone’s party. I don’t drink. One of the other volunteers, who’s 25, is also very shy and we’re friendly with each other but I don’t really know her too well. The party was her first time drinking and it didn’t go well for her. The night ended with her passing out after vomiting, breaking her very thick glasses which she is virtually blind without, slipping on her puke and landing on a table with her face and hair in someone’s drink, calling herself ugly, and sobbing in my chest. I was the only sober one there, but my tipsy friend and I were able to get in contact with her roommate and we drove her home.
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Since that incident, my friend keeps telling me that she’s looking at me differently, and is obviously attracted to me and that I should ask her out. I am completely oblivious in social situations and I don’t know if that’s true. The only things I can think of are when she asked if she could come over to my apartment to watch a horror movie I said I liked (which she did, it was fun), and when she said something to me in private out of the blue about wanting to be a mom before she turns 40. Our organization doesn’t explicitly have a policy against volunteers dating. She’s very cute, we share a lot of interests, and I wouldn’t mind being in a relationship with her, but I feel like if I asked her out and she rejected me it would make our relationship worse, especially since we work with the same set of kids and so work together a lot.
Other people besides my friend have started to ask me if I’m going to ask her out, which makes me think that I must be missing something obvious. She knows that I used to have problematic beliefs, but I don’t know if she knows that I used to be an incel. If we are actually both attracted to each other, she would not be the person to ask me out because she is quite shy and non-confrontational. I am also shy and non-confrontational but I am prepared to ask her out. Should I ask her, though? I am prepared to take no for an answer and go back to our regular lives, but how should I deal with it if she finds me weird or strange after rejecting me?
—Do I or Don’t I
Dear Do I or Don’t I,
She’s already come over to watch a movie?! And she invited herself?? I’m 99 percent sure she likes you. You can’t lose momentum here. Your line is, “Last Tuesday was so fun. When’s our next movie night?” And then do it again.
Or if you’re feeling brave, skip that step and say this: “I’ve hesitated to say this because the kids come first and I don’t want to do anything that would make our volunteering together awkward, so if the answer is no, I will totally understand, and we can pretend this conversation never happened: I’d really like to get to know you better. Could I take you out to dinner sometime?”
I hope she says yes. I believe she’ll say yes. But either way, you’ve already won. Take a moment and congratulate yourself. You have found a woman you’re attracted to, not just because of the way she looks, but because you share interests with her. You don’t feel entitled to date her. You don’t hate her for not already being your girlfriend. You are approaching this like a healthy, mature man. Your incel days are behind you, and whether or not you end up on an official date with this particular love interest, that’s something to be very proud of.
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--Remember that you can't control how weird another person makes a situation, you can just control how weird YOU make it.
--Take their cues on how much space they want (although if you want a little more than that, that's okay--but not less! definitely not less!).
--You really have something with "take no for an answer and go back to our regular lives," really commit to that.
Other thoughts?
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And bear in mind that being friendzoned means they’d like to keep you in their life: it means you’ve not been creepzoned.
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Yes, totally this.
I'm a guy, and there was a woman who I liked -- we had a lot in common, similar interests, etc., and I asked her if she wanted to date. She said no, but wanted to be friends. It was fine! She is still a friend, and continued being a friend after I met someone else who did want to date (and, eventually, marry me), and she found a nice guy as well (who I like as well). We don't hang out as much because she and her husband moved away, but (this is key), actual adults can be friends even if dating is off the table.