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minoanmiss ([personal profile] minoanmiss) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2025-02-10 11:08 am

Two from C&F about autism



I have two sons: “Alex,” who is 7, and “Thomas” who is 5. Thomas is severely autistic and a handful (nonverbal, cannot dress himself, often violent). We try to shield Alex from it as much as we can while we address Thomas’s needs, but short of taking him out of the house, he can’t avoid hearing temper tantrums or the difficulties in getting him to go to doctors’ appointments and the like. Caring for Thomas is difficult, but not what I’m writing in for.

What I’m actually asking about is a notice slip I got from Alex’s school. Based on some previous discussions this year, I got the feeling that Alex wasn’t getting along with a classmate of his (“Blake”) but that the teachers were working to keep them out of each other’s way. The notice slip says that there was an altercation at recess, during which Alex was heard saying that Blake didn’t deserve the extra help he was receiving and that he wasn’t actually autistic, he “just didn’t know when to shut up about trains.”

I’ve tried to explain to Alex that autism is a spectrum, and that someone can have it while not being as visibly impacted as Thomas is, but still indeed need a bit of extra accommodation. But Alex isn’t having any of it, insisting that Blake is just annoying and needs to learn how to behave. I’m not sure how to get through to him, and I don’t want him to develop emotional calluses from what’s going on at home.

—Teaching Empathy


Dear Empathy,

Although this is a discouraging situation, I think there is a charitable interpretation of Alex’s actions worth reflecting on. Yes, he is behaving rather badly toward Blake, but it sounds like perhaps he is taking umbrage at the notion that Blake is receiving attention and resources where they aren’t needed. In a weird way, he may think he’s defending his brother by bringing Blake to justice. The behavior needs to stop, of course, but it might indicate a strong sense of morality within Alex that can be nurtured as he grows.

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For now, though, I’d focus, separately, on educating Alex and setting some expectations for his behavior. In terms of education, you’re right to try to teach him that autism is a spectrum and manifests in varying ways to different degrees. But he’s not buying it from you, so go to external sources. This article recommends several picture books that help explain autism, many featuring cases like Blake’s. Try reading a few of these with Alex and having a discussion about them afterward. Draw comparisons between the characters and historical figures depicted—how was their autism similar or different to one another? What reminds Alex of the things he sees in Thomas and Blake? Help him develop more familiarity (and hopefully empathy) with autistic people of all sorts.

Then, set clear expectations for how Alex should be treating his classmates. Reinforce that, whether they’re autistic or not, it is never OK to insult other students. He’s allowed to be annoyed at Blake’s behavior (nobody is required to like everybody) but he is not allowed to be disrespectful or unkind. It’s also not Alex’s business whether Blake deserves to receive accommodations; he needs to leave that to school personnel. There will be plenty of times when a co-worker or other peer receives something without Alex knowing the reason why. This is an opportunity for him to learn when to stand up to/for others, and when to keep his eyes on his own paper, so to speak. If he can master this skill, it’ll pay dividends down the line.

—Allison

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I have a good friend with a son Brian who was recently diagnosed with autism. Brian and my kid are both about 6 years old, and we spend time together once a week or so. Brian has started to become much more out of control lately; he’s destructive (smashing toys, drawing on walls and furniture, throwing things at my child) and now he talks about some seriously scary things (wanting to shoot people with guns, killing, hurting people). My friend won’t discipline Brian ever because she says, “That would make it worse” since he doesn’t like to have attention on him. I certainly can’t judge her, because what do I know about autism? But now it’s gotten to the point where I don’t want to invite them over anymore. Things are broken or missing every time they come over, and my anxiety is through the roof when I hear Brian talking about violent stuff with my kid. And my friend just kind of shrugs. No consequences or discussions with Brian at all.
I’m not sure what to do. I don’t want to hurt my friend’s feelings because I know she’s going through a lot with Brian’s recent autism diagnosis. But my child and I are so stressed after they visit. Is this a typical presentation of autism? What’s the best way to be supportive but also protect my anxiety, and that of my child?

—Conflicted Friend


Dear Conflicted,

There is a common saying about autism symptoms, presentations, and experiences: If you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person. The point is that autism looks different in every individual. Additionally, how autism manifests can change with an individual’s age, treatment history, and stimuli in the moment. So, there is not necessarily a “typical” presentation of the disability, so to speak. (This is why autism is such a tricky thing to adapt to and understand.)

All that said, violent behavior is not unusual among autistic individuals. It’s not usually malicious; rather, it’s an outcropping of frustration, communication difficulties, overstimulation, etc. That doesn’t make it any less scary or problematic for you, though. While I’ve personally never experienced cases of autistic kids using violent language, one common marker of autism is the inability to understand and appropriately apply social norms, so that might be at play here.

As awkward as it is, I think you need to have a conversation with your friend where you express your concerns from a constructive point of view. See if you can figure out a path forward that you’re comfortable with; maybe the playdates are outside in nature for now, until she has a behavior management strategy in place (outdoor time can be great for autistic kids!). Maybe the kids take a break from each other while she learns her son’s triggers, but you maintain contact with (and support for) your friend. Autistic kids often face social isolation, and as a result, their parents do, too. It can be a lonely life, as you can see from past letter writers to this column, among other sources. So do whatever you can to avoid becoming that friend who fades away because it gets too hard. You can also familiarize yourself with autism by reading some books or websites; that goes for your child, too! I love the “Kids Book About” series, and they have one about autism.

Finally, remember that it’s the behaviors, not the kid, that you’re bothered by. This is an important distinction, and hopefully, one that you will begin to automatically turn to as your friend and her son start exploring therapies and strategies to help him thrive.

—Allison
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2025-02-10 05:15 pm (UTC)(link)
LW: if you haven't yet, get Alex screened for autism, and find out if he needs any accomodations. Autism is at least partly genetic, and it's entirely possible that part of what's going on is that Alex could use accommodations similar to Blake's, but he feels like he can't have it because his role in the family is to be the one who doesn't need extra help, and because of Thomas he's been under a lot of pressure not to show it.

Is his comment about Blake "needing to learn to behave" instead of talking about his interests parroting things that have been said to Alex by adults? Even if Alex isn't autistic, and isn't being held to an extra-high standard by you, he may have built himself into holding himself to a very high standard, because he senses the stress you're under and knows that Thomas is allowed to do things that he isn't.
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)

[personal profile] lokifan 2025-02-11 11:02 am (UTC)(link)
Ooh, that's a VERY good point.
ysobel: (Default)

[personal profile] ysobel 2025-02-11 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
That was my thought too.
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[personal profile] sporky_rat 2025-02-10 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)

You know, the second a six year old was throwing things at my six year old in non-sports-related ways, that six year old would be out.

Throwing things at another child is not okay and I say this having been one of those children

petrea_mitchell: (Default)

[personal profile] petrea_mitchell 2025-02-10 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
For #1, I would investigate the possibility that Alex feels like he's unjustly losing out on help and attention both at home and at school.
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[personal profile] full_metal_ox 2025-02-10 09:08 pm (UTC)(link)
LW #2:

Brian has started to become much more out of control lately; he’s destructive (smashing toys, drawing on walls and furniture, throwing things at my child) and now he talks about some seriously scary things (wanting to shoot people with guns, killing, hurting people).

Okay. That didn’t come from nowhere, especially all of a sudden. What else is going on in that family, and in Brian’s life? (And that especially didn’t come from nowhere in a social atmosphere where a lot of people have assumed that they’ve been issued a Purge License. And where the definition of masculinity is getting trash-compacted into a rapidly-shrinking Man Box defined by callousness, lust, violence, and perpetual dominance-jockeying.)

My friend won’t discipline Brian ever because she says, “That would make it worse” since he doesn’t like to have attention on him. I certainly can’t judge her, because what do I know about autism?

Weighing in as one autistic: what I know is that one indispensable survival skill is threat assessment, and the ability to distinguish between the unfamiliar, the troubling, and the dangerous—-and, in turn, to realize what circumstances might make someone perceive you as threatening. These distinctions can be learned cognitively, but it requires an acknowledgement of all sorts of power imbalances. (You might just have wanted to pet that wild baby bunny, but millions of years of evolution have taught her that there’s only one reason that a much larger non-rabbit grabs you.)

And would teaching Brian at least rudimentary manners make it worse than some cop deciding it’s Brian Season?
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[personal profile] green_grrl 2025-02-10 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
The same sentences caught my attention, too. I’m wondering whether violent acting out / language to the point of upset should mean, “Okay, visit is over.” If Brian is overstimulated, that’s probably best, anyway. If not, well, a consistent action/non-judgmental consequence is probably better than no consequence at all.
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)

[personal profile] lokifan 2025-02-11 11:03 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, quite. And that might be a suggestion that LW can make to their friend the most easily because it's putting the "not wanting to do the visit" very clearly on the specific acting out rather than having Brian around at all.
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[personal profile] liv 2025-02-12 09:27 pm (UTC)(link)
It really could just be a case of being six. Sometimes the world gets more complex and more overwhelming, a combination of personal development (maybe he started to get have more cognitive understanding of other people's emotions and general situations, but not yet the emotional regulation to deal with that), and being in a more demanding external environment (6yos are supposed to sit still and pay attention most of the time in school, whereas 5yos can probably move around more and play more, and that transition might be hard for an autistic kid.) I doubt that at 6 he is paying attention to the way the media talks about Trump and has concluded that he, as a Man, has a licence to harm other people for fun.

None of which is to say that smashing things, throwing things at another kid, or using graphic violent threats are acceptable behaviours. But I feel it's worth entertaining the possibility that these bad behaviours are expressions of overwhelm, rather than intentional malice.
full_metal_ox: A gold Chinese Metal Ox zodiac charm. (Default)

[personal profile] full_metal_ox 2025-02-12 10:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I can see that: the boom suddenly dropping between kindergarten and first grade.
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[personal profile] azurelunatic 2025-02-13 03:33 am (UTC)(link)
I know my ADHD nephew had a hell of a time adjusting to those different school expectations between 5 and 6, and his teacher certainly did not help the situation.
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[personal profile] conuly 2025-02-11 01:48 am (UTC)(link)
Well, Brian's mother needs somebody to help her learn to raise her son, because this is no good.

As for LW1... Alex needs to be evaluated as well, because autism is hereditary, very. Also, Alex clearly has some needs that aren't being met, and really should be getting some therapy or... I don't know, at least a social group for kids with autistic siblings? He needs a space where people understand and where he can talk.