Niblings and - wait, what's the gender-neutral term for aunts and uncles?

[conuly]

1. Dear Amy: I have twin nieces, both 29. We’ve always been close. Their dad (my brother) is an alcoholic known to draw unwanted attention to himself. You can imagine being teenagers and dealing with this challenge and embarrassment.

I am the “Gunkle” (gay uncle) who has always been their biggest cheerleader, helped financially for their education, the person they often came to for advice, etc. We’re super close, although we have always lived in different cities and now only see each other a couple times a year.

Last weekend one of my nieces (who has mentioned that I am one of the most important people in their life) attended a concert in another state. Her husband and I have our own (poor) opinions of one another. I have actively tried to repair the relationship but have not had any response from him.

Anyway, to get to this concert, they literally had to drive within a mile from my home – both coming and going. She did not visit or let me know they would be nearby. The only reason I know she attended was by her social media posts. I am hurt. The trip was for a music festival so it’s not like they couldn’t have driven 10 blocks out of the way and said a quick hello.

I just feel a bit disrespected and disappointed in her. She and her sister are the closest to daughters I will ever have. How should I react? Am I expecting too much?

– Gunkle

Dear Gunkle: You are not expecting too much.

Here’s the transparently frank response: “I was so disappointed to see on Instagram that you and Brad went to Lollapalooza, literally driving within a mile of my house! It really hurt my feelings that you didn’t even slow down for a quick hello.”

Your niece might then react to your honesty with embarrassment, perhaps a sheepish apology or lame explanation, and by clicking “hide” on her social media account, hence removing the trigger to your hurt feelings.

There is another way to respond; it’s not thoroughly honest, but a little lighter, brighter, and on brand for the devoted “gunkle” you’ve established yourself to be. And so you might send her an email or a text: “I saw on Instagram that you went to Lollapalooza, and if you drove, you would have passed very near my house. I hope you know that you are always welcome to stop in, even briefly or last-minute. I would love to have seen you!”

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2. Dear Annie: My sister-in-law has lived with my in-laws for four years. When she and her then-infant moved in, it was an emergency situation -- leaving an abusive relationship. However, she does not seem to have plans or ambitions to move out. My husband's parents (in their 70s with health concerns) watch her child (now 4) every day while she works from 2-10 p.m. She also uses them to go out with friends and go away for weekends.

It's a small house with only two bedrooms. When she moved in, she took over the house. Her stuff and the child's things are everywhere. The stinky diaper pail is in the living room. And you usually can't even walk with the toys everywhere. On top of this, my in-laws tell my kids they can't go to this or that because they are watching said grandchild. They don't travel and go on vacations like they had planned for retirement because that would leave her without a sitter.

To be clear, they were always willing to help with our kids when they were young. But we never asked for more than one day a week. And my kids would be fine with the fact that they didn't come to their sporting events if the reason wasn't because of babysitting.

I feel like we don't stop over as often to see them because it is stressful and frustrating and the child gets mad when our kids play with his toys. I know that is on me and I just need to force myself to visit for the sake of our parents.

My husband's parents are adults and obviously can make their own choices, yet I feel like they and my husband's sister are at fault for the situation. We don't want to come across as jealous or that we don't love them, but it's very frustrating to see how selfish she is being. Should we say something or let it be? -- Frustrated Family

Dear Frustrated Family: Perhaps your in-laws are not bothered by the situation the way you are. Maybe their perspective is that they get to spend time with their daughter and grandchild. If they were truly annoyed, my guess is they would be writing to me asking how to kick their daughter and grandchild out of the house.

As far as your kids playing with toys and the cousins fighting, that is up to you to talk to your children and to your brother about how best to teach the kids to share and get along.

Because four years is a long time to live with someone, your husband might suggest that his sister pay their parents rent, or chip in another way, for staying. But if their parents say no, then there's really nothing you can do about it, so -- to answer your question -- at that point I would let it be.

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3. Dear Annie: I am currently married with no kids. I travel a lot for work and vacation. The issue is my wife's sister, her husband and their kids. Three years ago, my wife and I allowed them to move into our home because their living situation was not great. They shared a small apartment that was overrun with rats and cockroaches. We told them that they could stay until they were able to get back on their feet. This was only supposed to be six months to a year. Annie, it's been three years in counting with no end in sight.

This is the father's third marriage, and he has seven kids in total. The children rule the roost and are not disciplined. I am no longer their fun-loving uncle. We butt heads about everything. I find myself on the edge of screaming at them daily. When I get home from work, the house is a complete mess. They eat all the food I buy, don't clean and do not pay rent. They are on easy street, and I am paying for it.

My wife and I had decided to finally give them a "hard" deadline to leave this past spring. My wife's sister lost her job just before this deadline. She was employed three weeks later -- while the husband has been employed this whole time -- but the "hard" deadline came and went. Worse yet, my wife is completely on their side. She doesn't want them to be forced out because then she would be abandoning "family." I am at my wits' end and don't know what to do. A co-worker suggested that when I'm home, I should be in nothing but my underwear to make the situation uncomfortable for them so they will leave. I feel like I am completely out of options and have been actually considering this or worse. Please, Annie, what should I do? -- Almost Au Naturel in Alabama

Dear Almost Au Naturel: Your co-worker's suggestion gets points for creativity. Unfortunately, it is also passive, avoidant and immature. A direct confrontation would solve your problem quickly, but it sounds like you are willing to do anything to avoid that.

The first step is to get on the same page as your wife. Explain to her that you are not abandoning the family -- and perhaps brainstorm some other ways in which you can support them -- but that you need to regain control of your home in order to preserve your well-being. Once you and your wife find your common ground, initiate the long-overdue conversation.

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4. DEAR ABBY: My niece, who just turned 5, is twice the size of a normal child her age. Her parents are also overweight. They let her eat what she wants, and the amount of food is what an adult would eat. I am so worried, both from a health perspective as well as about social acceptance by her peers. Must I shut my mouth? How can I address this without alienating them, as I cherish our relationship? -- WORRIED IN THE MIDWEST

DEAR WORRIED: To discuss this with the overweight parents would be like tap dancing in a minefield. It could be interpreted as judgmental and make them defensive. However, when your niece is with you, model healthy behavior in your choices of what you eat and serve her to eat. If you do, you will be able to demonstrate that not everyone eats the way her parents do.

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5. DEAR ABBY: My brother is 53. He has one child, my 12-year-old nephew, "Conner." Our father was difficult, and neither of us has many happy memories of times we shared with him. Perhaps in response to this, my brother seems incapable of socializing without his son. Many times, he suggests outings to my husband or his friends and then throws in that he's planning on bringing Conner. We do not want the boy included in what should be adult outings, but we can't find a way of saying it. If I'm planning a dinner out or something else where I think he might invite his son, I preface it with a grownups-only clause. I can't discuss it with my sister-in-law because even though I know she would understand, she wouldn't be tactful in mentioning it to my brother. My husband is not the type to say anything; it would mean more coming from him, but he doesn't want to cause upset. By the way, my brother is very outgoing and socially adept, so it's not like he needs this 12-year-old crutch. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. -- FRUSTRATED IN NEVADA

DEAR FRUSTRATED: Your brother may not need a social crutch, but from what you have described, the same may not be true of your nephew. Most 12-year-old boys have friends they can socialize with other than Dad. Is that true of Conner, or would he be sitting alone in his room if his father didn't insert him into so many adult gatherings? Rather than tell your brother or his wife that the boy is unwelcome, it might be more helpful to ask whether Conner has difficulty socializing with his peers. If that's the case, he may need professional help.

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Comments

[conuly]

1. Geez, LW1, learn to write. This letter was so full of extraneous information it could've been cut to half the length and then it would've made more sense.

Also - please don't say anything to your niece. Maybe the only reason she didn't pop by is because she was on a schedule. Probably best to assume that's the case anyway.

2. The fact that LW2 consistently says "that child" rather than "my (husband's) niece/nephew" or "my kid's cousin" really rubs me the wrong way. It rubs me so much the wrong way that I have, possibly unreasonably, concluded that they're the selfish one in this family, not SIL. (Also - this is signed "Frustrated Family", but what does Husband think of the whole situation?)

3. Nine extra people!? Even if some of the kids are only there intermittently, that's a lot of people to have in a house!

LW3, you may need to set things in motion yourself. Beg, borrow, steal, or otherwise find the money to pay the first two and last months' rent plus security deposit on a place for SIL. Stock it with all pantry staples, toilet paper, etc. necessary for a few months. Buy a few grocery store gift cards as well, pre-pay a hefty chunk into the utilities for the first few months, pay for a year of Netflix or whatever, and then present it to them as a fait accompli. "Look at the amazing gift I got you! You'll love it, here's the key, don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

Then go home and change the locks.

If they manage to get back in the house anyway - well, now you've got a new apartment for yourself, I guess. The cost will be worth it.

4. It will not be "interpreted" as judgmental, it simply will be judgmental. Why is it that every adult bully claims that they only want to prevent other people from bullying? (Also, I never believe claims that another person's child is overweight without actual numbers. People will say anything, just anything.)

5. LW5, don't psychoanalyze your brother. Abby, don't psychoanalyze LW5's nephew.

All we know is that Brother and LW5 disagree on which things are "adult outings" and which things are "family outings". And LW5, if you think Brother needs somebody to talk to him about this, the person it will mean more coming from is not your SIL, and it's not your husband. It's you. And it's very simple: "Brother, nobody else is bringing their kids to this event. It seems pretty adults-only. Did Connor ask to come along?"

[cimorene]

1. exactly

2. Same, she's describing what sounds like plausibly a happy multi generation household. I've had friends grow up like this. Sounds like the problem is LW. If your nibling and your children are having friction about sharing toys, that's a completely different issue and a letter that you didn't write.

3. I sympathize, but LW has an SO problem, not an in law problem. They need to focus a lot more on talking and negotiating with their wife.

4. Another fatphobic busybody to yeet into the sun.

5. Yeah, impossible to tell from the letter which, if any, is more "normal", but it doesn't really matter because the issue is just that they disagree and LW wants to control the guest list of all the family activities, not just the ones he hosts. Buddy, there's no smooth and easy way to do that!

[lethe1]

1. Niece is probably aware of the mutual dislike between husband and gunkle and so decided not to stop by, forgetting that gunkle would probably see her post about the concert.

4. "My niece, who just turned 5, is twice the size of a normal child her age." I immediately pictured a giant (very tall) 5-year-old.

5. What is wrong with Conner sitting alone in his room sometimes?

[cora]

1 - I'm assuming niece's schedule was either jam packed, or she has limited patience for being a full human when traveling and all of that energy was delegated to the concert. Either of these reasons would be why I wouldn't bother going out of my way (even for a single mile) to stop in and say "Hello" to someone...if I did, my stop in would be a ring the bell, literally say "Hello" with a wave, turn my back, and leave. The outing is for a concert, not additional human interaction beyond concert.

2 - Perhaps the in-law helps your parents with their health concerns? A 4 year old is a bit "easier" to watch after than a baby for instance. If your parents don't seem to mind, this is perhaps how they want to live their twilight years. How many young adults make big plans to travel, go on vacations, etc. only to realize they would rather give up the travel/vacations to have a family? Maybe the same is true of your in laws.

3 - It seems that kicking the family out of the house isn't going to fly. Why not instead come up with a chart of reasonable contributions for everyone in the household to make? This includes the childcare responsibilities for the adults (hint: you & your wife should only be available for childcare if that is something one or both of you wishes for). In all actuality, it's very likely they're staying with you because an apartment cannot legally allow 9 people to live there (it really depends on the tenant laws of your state - my state allows 2 people per bedroom. There are 3 bedroom apartments, but that still limits the apartment to having 6 people living there). The parents also need to come up with rules for the kids about living there, too. I would definitely recommend "Supernanny" to them - great show to learn how to parent over tiny humans. I would also recommend this show to you & your wife - even if the kids won't behave for their parents, they can learn "Oh...auntie and uncle will give out consequences *every single time* - it's in my own interests to do what they ask."

4 - LW, I assure you if there is a concern for your nieces health, it will come up in her pediatric appointments. If you are concerned, something you can do is provide funding and transportation to a hobby/after school activity that requires physical activity - sports, gymnastics, some kind of playgroup where the kids are allowed to just run around, going to the park on a regular basis, etc. Unless your niece is a "weird" kid or neurodivergent, she'll probably be fine with her peers.

5 - Why not come up with an outing idea of your own to invite your brother to and put in an "adults only" clause? Assuming perhaps there is a reason Conner cannot stay home alone, offer to pay for babysitting as needed. Start to put language to the outings - when your brother invites you to outings "Oh, is this a bros night or a family night?" When you invite him out for an "adults only" night - call it a bros night. Feel free to change what you call the bros night (bros night, friends night, hang out night, adult's night, daddy's night off, whatever), but it needs to have a different word to describe the situation compared to "family night."

[jadelennox]

What is up with all these columnists thinking an outsider perspective on a family situation is reliable?

LW1, and Amy: FFS, I go near other people I love all the time without visting. Travel is hard, and you can't always make time to see everyone. Get the heck over yourself.

LW2: This is none of your damn business, unless you are under the impression that some elder abuse is happening.

LW3: WTF, get them out of there, this sounds horrific. Find some way to get them a lease and them change the locks.

LW4: Fuck off into the sun.

LW5: Also none of your business -- and Abby, you don't have enough information to diagnose the kid, so STFU. LW, you are making it clear which invites are adulta only, and the rest of this is none of your concern.

gender neutral Aunt and Uncle titles.

[purlewe]

I looked on the internets bc I was curious.

From genderrights.org.au:
Pibling; neutral, your parent's sibling. Auncle; queer, combination of aunt and uncle. Cousin; neutral, as sometimes people say aunt/uncle for parents' cousins, or much older cousins. Titi; neutral, from the Spanish for Aunt (Tia) and Uncle (Tio).

Re: gender neutral Aunt and Uncle titles.

[conuly]

Well, I don't like any of those. We're going to have to come up with something better.

Re: gender neutral Aunt and Uncle titles.

[purlewe]

OK I did some more internet searching.

zizi: modeled on terms for aunt and uncle in Italian (zia and zio)
bibi: modeled on titi and zizi, with the B from nonbinary (which is often abbreviated as nb)
nini: similarly modeled on titi and zizi, with the N from nonbinary
unty/untie: a combination of uncle and aunty/auntie

Re: gender neutral Aunt and Uncle titles.

[laurajv]

"nini" has linguistic conflict with "ninny", which is a (not super common, but not super rare) name for "grandmother", and also a word for a person who is silly and not very smart.

I've been thinking about this for years and still have no solutions I like.

[minoanmiss]

I’m glad I’m not related to any of these people but then I think #1 is probably overreacting and #3 lost a lot of points with me for wanting to weaponize nudity.

[topaz_eyes]

2. On top of this, my in-laws tell my kids they can't go to this or that because they are watching said grandchild.

I think this might be the crux of LW2's issue, especially if the in-laws used to attend LW's kids' activities prior to SIL moving in with them. If the in-laws are turning down all invitations by LW2's kids to attend their activities because babysitting, that will generate negative feelings. (Yes, many of these events likely coincide with SIL's work hours. But surely the in-laws could make themselves available for a few of them when SIL isn't working?)

[conuly]

Maybe. LW also says that the house is full of diaper pails that make it stink. The kid is now four. Either LW is lying - or at least heavily exaggerating - or those diaper pails are for the grandparents and they haven't let LW know, or the kid is somewhat behind on at least one developmental milestone. I'd expect a four year old to be potty trained during the day.

On the other hand, maybe the grandparents honestly just don't want to go to baseball games and dance recitals! Maybe LW would have more luck by inviting the grandparents and whoever all else to go to the park or to the zoo.

[ethelmay]

Potty trained during the day means there's still a diaper pail for the night diapers, though. And I have known several kids who didn't fully train during the day until after their fourth birthday (though all the cases I know about it was pretty soon after). Or they might be talking about the general extent to which the grandparents' lives are taken over by childcare stuff, and the fact that the diaper pail has been history for a few months isn't important to them.

[lokifan]

Ooh, good catch re: the diapers.

[melannen]

Yeah, there's something more going on here (besides the diaper pails, which I didn't even catch.) A three- or four-year-old is old enough to come along to their cousins' ball games with their grandparents, and probably even enjoy it: LW could even offer to watch the kid at the games themself, if they're that worried about the parents being overworked. Either someone is being extremely controlling of the 4-year-old, or going to the events is a lot more of a production than LW makes it out to be, or grandparents are using babysitting as an excuse. Or LW has banned them from bringing the four year old along.

[melannen]

1. Dropping in on someone during a long road trip is more complicated than just driving a mile, and you probably know this. All else aside, unless she knows for a fact that you spend all your time 24/7 waiting at home for her to visit, it would have meant having to arrange the schedule for the trip around when they could see you (and they may not have known what their schedule would have been at all in advance; even just calling a couple hours ahead means suddenly having to be stressed about traffic when otherwise you just needed to get to your hotel sometime.)

Swallow your sense of abandonment, make sure she knows she *can* stop by whenever, and maybe work on arranging a trip that's only about visiting you.

2. It's not your business, and if it bothers you that they're always babysitting and seem stressed by it, you could offer to take a day a week like they did for you. But it sounds like the actual problem is that you're offended that they're helping that child differently than they helped yours, even though they gave the help you asked for. And that's a you problem.

3. You need to get your wife on your side, or come to a compromise the two of you can both live with. If you can't, you need to get your own place.

4. Yes, you must.

5. Is this something that's been going on Conner's whole life (in which case, such patience!) or is it something that's been started since Conner became a pre-teen? If it's recent, it might help to remember that 12 is not really a small child. Many children want to start doing "adult" things at that age and it's reasonable to let them. Try to reconcile yourself to the fact that Conner is growing up fast and will be indistinguishable from an adult before you know it - and it'll be good for him to know how to be an adult when he gets there. If all of your get-togethers involve doing things that are inappropriate for twelve-year-olds or saying things you don't want him to hear, I can understand not wanting him along - but in that case maybe you should reconsider the types of outings you enjoy (and maybe your brother brings Conner along because he doesn't like that kind of adult gathering either.)

[mommy]

1: Does this LW expect all his relatives to pop by his home when they're just passing through? That seems excessive. I'd be a bit annoyed at having to entertain guests every time someone I'm related to takes the highway past my place.

3: The wife is placing her sister's family over her own. This is a problem — I've seen divorces happen over less. It's past time for the LW to sit his wife down and have a blunt conversation.

5: The brother isn't a mind reader, and the line between family outings and adult outings can be blurry. The LW needs to use their words to establish what kind of outing they're after.

2 and 4 need to understand that some things (many things) are just none of their business.

[michelel72]

Re: #1 ... it is 20-damn-23. Who just drops in on somebody when they're on their way to a scheduled event? Who wants to be hectically dropped in on? How very ... I don't know, 1950s???

(Is the real complaint here that the niece didn't notify the uncle of plans to be in town and schedule a visit as part of the trip? If so ... maybe that wasn't feasible given the event schedule; maybe the niece just didn't want to, especially if doing so raised the prospect of personality conflicts between an uncle and a husband.)

[laurajv]

I have definitely driven to a town in another state after work for a concert, gone to the concert, and then immediately driven home because I had work or somet other event the next day. I'm sure I'm not the only one. (I know I'm not the only one because I used to do this with friends to split the driving!)

[green_grrl]

I may be the only person worried about LW2’s in-laws? They’re in their 70s with health concerns doing a full 8 hours a day of toddler care every day, plus weekend babysitting — I would not have been up for that in my 40s. No wonder they don’t have energy to see their other grandkids, or take time for themselves. However they’re the ones letting their daughter take over their house/lives, so it’s not up to LW.

(LW3, on the other hand, it’s half his house. He needs a real come-to-Jesus talk with his wife that it’s time to set another hard deadline.)

[melannen]

It could be a major concern - but "in their 70s with health concerns" covers a lot of ground, and I think the fact that LW presents the alternative as "traveling constantly" made a lot of us wonder how much the health concerns were really a concern. My mom is in her 70s with "health concerns" and goes nuts if she's not doing at least 20 hours a week of high-intensity volunteering that exhausts me, and also all the yard work.

I mean I wouldn't have wanted to handle 8 hours a day with a four-year-old in my *20s*, but lots of people do well into their 70s (and there are two of them, so the kid's outnumbered, which makes a huge difference.)

[laurajv]

They're not doing 8 hours a day of toddler care unless that toddler is going to be abnormally late, though. Both my kids were asleep by 7pm at that age, so it's really more likely to be about 5 hours, and then 3 hours (where you'd probably be home anyway) when someone just needs to be home in case there's a fire/the toddler gets sick. I'm not saying it's the most fun schedule in the world but I'd 8000% rather do a 2-10p toddler babysit than a 10a-6p one, for example.

[resonant]

I don't have anything to add to the rest, but as an introvert I was absolutely flattened by #1. People genuinely expect that when you drive out of state to go to a concert, you're going to stop and visit a relative along the way?

Back in the seventies when long distance was expensive, my dad's family had a rule that if you made a stop in a relative's town, you were supposed to phone them and chat for a bit. And just that -- just a phone call -- was a pain in the neck. You're traveling; you're juggling multiple priorities; your schedule is dependent on a lot of things you have no control over, and things can change without warning; adding one more family responsibility was really irritating. (My cousins and I all gave that a great big nope as soon as we were old enough.)

I think Gunkle LW has weird expectations, and needs to stop being mortally offended and hurt by things that have nothing to do with him.

[laurajv]

1. leave her alone! not every trip to a beloved relative's town has space in it for beloved relative!

2. stay the fuck out of it, how in the six flying hells is this your business

3. you have a wife problem, sir or madam

4. surprisingly reasonable for abby. not fantastic but also not awful.

5. if your brother is the one SUGGESTING THE OUTING, why do you think that these SHOULD be adults-only outings? isn't that the decision of the person planning the outing? I sure think it is. you are free to continue suggesting explicitly kid-free outings.