Oh, LW, yes, these are BIG RED FLAGS!

[conuly]

Dear Prudence,

I need an outside perspective on whether I’m kidding myself in my relationship. I’m a guy dating another guy, and it’s the best relationship of my life in so many ways. He’s smart, funny, thoughtful, and gorgeous. He’s also really possessive. I’ve caught him looking through my phone a few times (never finding anything, as there is nothing to find), and he gets edgy about my friendships with other queer men. He once threw my phone and broke it when I had changed the password. Most of my friends are women and straight guys, so it doesn’t come up often, but he’s gotten really angry and yelled at me over things like my gay male friend ending his texts to me with kisses or being “handsy” (my boyfriend’s inaccurate description) when we hug. My boyfriend says it’s not a matter of not trusting me so much as not trusting gay guys to not hit on me. To be fair, I do get hit on a lot in queer spaces, but it’s never been hard brushing them off, especially not with my ex-marine boyfriend next to me looking ready to kill them.

The problem is that I’m not sure I really mind? Like, I find this irritating and have snapped at him about it, but I mostly find it kind of flattering, if I’m honest. My previous boyfriends have treated me badly, and this is the first relationship where I’ve actually felt loved—it’s nice to have someone who is, in my boyfriend’s words, “crazy” about me. But a couple of my friends say it’s a huge red flag and have even implied he’s abusive or going to be abusive if I stay. I am 99 percent sure he would never hit me, and he’s never been physically aggressive with me. Can you advise on whether it sounds like I’m kidding myself, and this possessive behavior is a huge red flag that I should run from, or is there a midway point I’m missing where I could talk to him about this and get him to listen? I don’t want to break up (it’s been three years and we live together), but it worries me that I can’t describe his behavior to any of my friends without them looking horrified.

— Red Flag?

Dear Red Flag,

“It worries me that I can’t describe his behavior to any of my friends without them looking horrified.” This is a dead giveaway that your relationship is not what it should be. So is any account of a partner’s behavior that includes “He’s never been physically aggressive with me.” He doesn’t get any points because of that, and actually, it’s not even accurate given that he has thrown and broken your phone—that is very aggressive! You shouldn’t have to say it or even think about it. In fact, if you’re saying it, you’re probably already in trouble.

You deserve better, but even if you break up with him (which you should!), you are still going to have to deal with your feeling that perhaps you have to put up with mistreatment from anyone who’s crazy about you. Repeat after me: “I can have a partner who loves me AND ALSO treats me well.” I know it’s easy to say this, and harder to feel it. Shift your energy from saving this relationship to—as corny as it may sound–convincing yourself of your own worth. Recruit your friends, who obviously care about you very much, to support you as you look for the partner who’s “crazy” about you without being possessive. I guarantee there’s nothing about you that means you have to settle for less.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2022/08/dear-prudence-overnight-surprise-host.html

Comments

[conuly]

I hope LW takes this advice seriously. If you feel like you have to ask for an outside perspective on whether or not your partner is abusive, then the answer is probably yes.

[tielan]

ERMAGHERSH flags flags, everywhere flags.

Also a huge flag for me about LW: My previous boyfriends have treated me badly, and this is the first relationship where I’ve actually felt loved—it’s nice to have someone who is, in my boyfriend’s words, “crazy” about me.

This is a common thread in accounts of women who get into relationships with guys who abuse them. It's their first time feeling adored and loved and cherished - they're flattered by the jealousy and possessiveness, so they ignore the controlling, the surveillance, and the bad stuff. And over the course of years, the relationship goes toxic.

[conuly]

Agreed, and I'm actually super glad that LW's friends are on the ball about this. A lot of people have this idea that men can't be the victims of abuse, though why they think that I don't know.

[tielan]

I suspect people get caught up in the gendered aspect of it. Which, yes, abuse happens more commonly along gender lines, but a lot of times it's more about relationship dynamics, intimacy, and parties trying to exert control over each other whether they're same sex or different sex, sexual or platonic, romantic or familial.

(cf. the post about the woman whose mother screams at her and is trying to control her by making accusations at LW about LW's kids.)

[minoanmiss]

Brother, RUN.

[julian]

Why yes, him looking through your phone (without your permission) is a huge red flag, let *alone* him throwing it and breaking it. (This is both an intimidation tactic and a control tactic. Just, you know, FYI.)

And yes, it's hard if you've put this much time and energy into it, and it's hard if you're living together, but it's also true that abuse is so much more than if he's just hitting you. And if you're already in a place where him throwing your phone and breaking it is just sort of mildly startling? You are far too far down the path of the abuse being normalized already. Yes, love is good. Love is even better when it's not jealous and controlling. Take this opportunity and exit sooner rather than later.

[adrian_turtle]

It's especially hard because "it's been 3 years and we live together" can feel different now than it might have when we weren't 2.5 years into a pandemic that made people scared and isolated.

[fox]

99% sure he would never hit you is not sure enough.

[castiron]

Red flags like a battalion of U.S. Marines waving Marines flags.

"My boyfriend says it’s not a matter of not trusting me so much as not trusting gay guys to not hit on me."

LW, I'm pretty sure there are thousands of women with abusive partners who've said the same thing to them, substituting "straight" for "gay".

As long as it's an appropriate context for people to make advances, and as long as the guys are polite about it and accept "sorry, I'm taken" as a final no, and as long as *you* don't mind, a good partner doesn't freak out when people hit on you. Heck, a guy who's crazy about you in a healthy way may well be thinking "yep, look all you want, gents; I'm the one who gets to take him home."

Listen to your friends. Move out as soon as you can. Maybe call a domestic abuse hotline first to get some advice for moving out safely.

[ashbet]

Yes — I am a friendly, flirty (in an appropriate way), very busty, reasonably attractive person who has gotten a lot of attention in venues where it’s reasonable to hit on people (hi, Goth clubs!), and it drove me NUTS when my ex-husband would get jealous or offended about it.

(I made it clear to anyone actually trying to pick me up that I was flattered, but taken. But I love a good bit of friendly banter.)

I am completely unthreatened by people hitting on my partners, they’re attractive and I’m lucky! As long as they come home with me, we’re good ^_^

[xenacryst]

Honey, that's not love.

[azurelunatic]

A good partner has your back if you're getting unwanted attention that you would like backup on dealing with. This dude is invading your privacy to destroy your property because he imagines he might find some windmills.

A good partner:

1. Notices an interaction in the ordinary course of their day, or pays attention when you tell them.
2. Waits for an indication that you would like backup, or asks if you want backup.
3. Comes up with a mutually agreeable strategy. (This can be pre-gamed as a theoretical scenario discussed before it actually happens.)
4. Tells the unwanted suitor to no, really, buzz the fuck off.
5. Makes sure you're okay

This guy:

1. Goes looking for evidence of you cheating, even though he's framing it as looking for flirtation from others.
2. Gets angry if his surveillance is stymied.
3. Doesn't wait for you to need backup before performing aggression at both would-be suitors and anyone who seems too friendly.
4. Keeps doing this despite you telling him that 1 and 2 are unwanted.
5. Makes sure you know that he is putting violence on the table.

[purlewe]

I feel like no one ever explains that there are more than one kind of abuse. Like I have seen the gamut on websites from 6 to 10 kinds. And the only one anyone every talks about is the physical kind. "Oh they don't hit me" doesn't mean you are not abused.

Your friends are upset for you bc what your BF is doing is upsetting LW. I hope that you can get the help you need and get out of a relationship that is truly scary (even if you don't see it yet).

[melannen]

Hey LW - There's nothing wrong with you if you've found you like a little bit of possessive behavior! It can make you feel safe and valued, it can hit a kink, it can even make you feel safer about your boundaries and limits to know that someone else is helping you watch them.

What is wrong? Is a partner who won't respect your boundaries. You've told him (repeatedly!) that he's gone over the limits of what you do like, and he's responding by getting violent, destroying your property, making excuses, minimizing your objections, and trying to isolate you. And that's just what's in this letter.

Talking about how you're flattered by certain ways of showing possessiveness might be a good conversation to have with a boyfriend. The one you find after you dump this one. The one who has already shown you he's willing to respect all your boundaries even when you're still figuring them out, and never gets violent even to your stuff, and will try to knock it off when you ask him to knock it off.