Dear Abby: Boyfriend's mom is a bigot

[cereta]

DEAR ABBY: My boyfriend, "Paul," and I have been together for five years. We want to get married, but his mother is Catholic and she doesn't approve because I am an Alaskan native, which from her perspective makes me a pagan.

Paul hasn't attended church or held any Catholic views for many years, but he won't tell his mother because he's afraid it would devastate her. She has told me we are living in sin, that our marriage could cause him to be excommunicated, and if we have children, they'll be bastards who will go to hell.

I am hurt and confused over this and don't know what to do or say about it. Every time I try to talk to her, she tries to persuade me to convert, which I don't want to do. I'd like to have a relationship with her, but I don't want to have to change who I am for her to approve of me or my future children. What advice can you give me to help me get through my situation? -- DOOMED TO HELL IN ALASKA

DEAR "DOOMED": Are you sure your boyfriend WANTS to be married? Your problem isn't his mother; it's that he can't find the backbone to tell her he plans to marry you with or without her approval.

Paul's mother's thinking is outdated. Non-Catholic Alaskan natives are not "pagan"; the majority are Christian. As for your future children being "bastards doomed to hell" -- she's repeating an ancient prejudice, and that's all it is. It is no longer the position of the Catholic Church to excommunicate people who marry out of the faith.

You asked my advice; here it is: The woman is a religious bigot. She's unlikely to ever approve of you or stop trying to convert you, and it has gone beyond the point of concern for your soul to just plain insulting. She isn't going to change, and as long as your boyfriend is afraid of "devastating" her, your situation won't change either. A marriage to him under these conditions won't be easy, so please think twice about it.

Comments

[cereta]

Aside from telling an Alaskan native about the religious practices of Alaskan natives (which, UGH), Abby's advice is pretty spot-on:

1. NONE of mom's objections are in line with the contemporary Catholic Church. FFS, my dad didn't get excommunicated for marrying a Methodist nearly sixty years ago (marrying her in a Methodist Church was another matter, but even that was easily dealt with). I could give a laundry list of personal experiences, just my personal experiences, that dispute everything she's saying, but bottom line: she is wrong, which

2. Doesn't really matter, because this woman is making, and will continue to make, LW's life hell (npi), and boyfriend lacks the will to stand up to her. And neither couples' counseling, nor a "frank talk," nor a nice sit-down with mom is going to fix that. This situation is what it is, and what LW has to decide is if she can live with that.

(And Abby: really? Really with the telling an Alaskan native what she knows better than you do? Really?)

[redbird]

The kindest gloss I can put on that is that Abby is writing 10% for the letter writer, and 90% for the newspaper/online readers, and left out the "As you know, Bob" before the second paragraph.

She also slides oddly from "a lot of Alaskan Natives are Christian" (which really needs the "as you know") to the bit about changes in Catholic practice.

[vass]

Maybe she got edited badly for length.

[jadelennox]

The As You Know Bob is not only OH JOHN RINGO NO, but also totally irrelevant. From the point of view of Catholic marriage, "Christian" is not necessarily the same thing as Catholic. I mean, it sounds like the mother in question is not so much in the non-Catholic as she is fucking racist, but you never know--it's entirely possible she would be just as upset if Paul were marrying a Presbyterian.

[minoanmiss]

Oh man do I have strong feelings about this. I will limit myself to saying that I think Paul needs to choose between his mother, and her bigotry, and the woman he wants to spend his life with. The choice is being forced by her intransingent clinging to her bigotry, but he has to make it.

Or, LW has to make her own choice.

I know which I'd recommend, having been in both of their positions.

I'm sure the mother is a lovely woman otherwise, etc, and I know people say DTMFA too often, but in this case, I think LW should not be forced to live with this, including by herself.

[vass]

*nodnod*

[jadelennox]

I'm not sure this is a DTMFA situation. I feel like this is more of a, "Paul, you have to choose me, honey, and you can fix things with your mother later. And if you aren't willing to tell your mother the truth but you still want to maintain a relationship with her, it means you aren't really willing to be married." situation. He either needs to cut his mother off or tell her the truth, but I don't necessarily see evidence that he won't do that.

[cheyinka]

It was never the practice to excommunicate people who marry out of the faith, even. Refuse to grant permission, sure, in which case the Catholic partner could not validly marry, but that doesn't make them excommunicated if they go ahead and attempt marriage invalidly.

If Paul actually wanted a Catholic wedding, all he'd have to do is have his pastor ask his bishop for a "marrying a non-Christian" form, everyone signs it, life goes on. (If she is actually a Christian, just not The Right Sort, then it's a "marrying a non-Catholic" form. But, I mean, there's a form for it either way.)

The bigger problem is that Paul's mother could not be more obvious about not wanting her precious baby to marry a native if she took out a full page ad in the newspaper, and I wouldn't even bet on conversion making Ms Doomed acceptable, not if Paul is too afraid to tell his mother he doesn't go to church anymore, because I can bet Ms Doomed would never be the right sort of Catholic.

[vass]

I think there is a step before "DTMFA" in this case, and it is "ultimatum". Ultimatums have a bad rep, and that's deserved when they're used as threats and manipulations. But they're totally legitimate when a) you ARE dealing with a dealbreaker here, AND b) you DO plan to stay if they meet your demands, AND c) you WILL leave if they don't.

This sounds like a legit deal-breaker, and it is fine for her to tell him "if you don't tell your mother that you're no longer a Catholic, and that you won't continue to see her unless she is fully civil to me and any children we have, I'm leaving. You have a month." Or whatever her terms are. I would suggest a time limit, though, set at slightly shorter than however long she feels prepared to keep living like this.

It would also be okay to point out (if accurate) that his mother's treatment is devastating her, or that (accurate) it would be devastating for any children they have to have a grandmother who calls them hellbound bastards and a father who doesn't defend them or their mother.

Also, Paul's mother's thinking is not "outdated", it was always racist bullshit.