agonyaunt | Dear Prudence: "I’m a White Person Who’s Tired of Working on Diversity Initiatives at Work."

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Dear Prudence: "I’m a White Person Who’s Tired of Working on Diversity Initiatives at Work."

Rejected: I work for a large national nonprofit. About 95 percent of the clients we serve are people of color, while about 60 percent of the staff are people of color. I am white and possess underrepresented identities (obviously unrelated to race).

For the past year and a half, I have spent about 50 percent of my time working on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives. I engage in this work nearly every day—running and project-managing large national initiatives to attract and retain employees of color, and to address racist incidents that have occurred in our nonprofit’s past.

I am so ashamed and embarrassed to say this, but I am getting really burned out at work, and working on these initiatives is contributing to that. I engage in so, so many conversations about retaining people of color—increasing their pay, engaging in “stay” conversations with them, being flexible with their hours and work location to ensure they stay with the organization—and no one is having these conversations with me! I constantly hear things like, “we need to make sure there are people of color in the finalist pool” for jobs that are posted, or “she interviewed well, but we really want to hire a person of color for this role” and between that and hearing about how damaging white employees are, I feel like I’m no longer wanted at this organization. No one is checking in to see how I’m doing or ensuring I want to stay. Meanwhile, my administrative work is really the backbone of making sure these employee-of-color-centered initiatives are even getting off the ground in the first place!

I know it’s so important that our organization reflects the clients we serve. But I’m on the verge of quitting to work somewhere whiter, because hearing all day every day about how we don’t really want to hire white folks if possible, as I spend hours of overtime on DEI-related tasks, is taking a toll on my self-esteem and self-worth. I know I’m being overly defensive and taking this too personally. But I can’t help it. Do you have any ideas on what I can do to fix these feelings within myself?

A: It sounds like you should move on. Apply for new jobs. This work isn’t rewarding for you, and there’s no way you’re as effective as you could be if you’re approaching every day with resentment and defensiveness. Your organization deserves someone who is on board with its mission. Meanwhile, you should sort out for yourself whether your commitment to diversity ends when you begin to be inconvenienced or made to feel uncomfortable, or when people like you aren’t prioritized—and whether you want to change that. It’s definitely something worth exploring. But do it while you’re not on the clock.

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Realllllllly tempted to write the That Bad Advice version of a reply to this, but that would probably be bad for society if I let myself.

ETA after taking a few breaths.

I know that as a Citizen of this Country I should probably be trying to understand and sympathize with LW and stuff. But two particular lines got me: "hearing about how damaging white employees are" made me see red because not only are they (willfully) misinterpreting discussions of the power of racism but I have been told since I was in single digits how damaging and dangerous Black people are, immigrants are, people "without Western work ethics" are. And "I’m on the verge of quitting to work somewhere whiter," really underscores how LW does not (is maybe determined to not) see the POC they work with and serve as individual humans but as a roiling tide of brownness causing all their work problems. They see their solution as avoiding POC and finding a workplace which excludes POC. I kind of don't blame the columnist for throwing up her metaphorical hands and saying "go ahead, leave."

I just think of all the clients LW has power over, all the coworkers who have to deal with their daily disdain, and...yeah. Having a little trouble mustering sympathy for this LW.

Edited 2021-12-01 16:45 (UTC)

Basically agreed with all of this. (I have a white, male colleague who is convinced he didn't get a job at a California university because he's white. But he's also pretty disengaged from DEI work in general, so I can see why a place more focused on it would pass him by. He does not seem to have considered that other candidates could have been better than him.)

LW is doing their organization and themselves no favors by staying. I worry that any interactions they have with clients and co-workers of color may be full of microagressions or other bias. Also, as a white woman in education, I have no sympathy whatsoever for LW. My field desperately needs people of color in the workforce as well as more training in culturally relevant pedagogy for the white teachers currently serving the majority of public school children - which are children of color from low-income families.

worry that any interactions they have with clients and co-workers of color may be full of microagressions or other bias.

Word. I worry about this too.

Are you sure LW is (willfully) misinterpreting discussions of race? We're not talking about discussions generally; we're talking about specific discussions in LW's organization.

It sounds to me like LW's organization might not be handling DEI with much deftness. If any manager in my company dared say “she interviewed well, but we really want to hire a person of color for this role,” HR would come down on them like a load of bricks.

Based on my experiences with decades in this skin, in the vast majority of cases of discussions like these I have been party to, read about, heard about, studied, etc, initiatives to improve things for POC are consistently described as being experienced as attacks by people who would benefit from not improving things for POC.

But I don't work for LW's company, though it seems they might be hiring soon. Maaaaaaayyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbeeeeeeee they are the dreadful exception. After all, pretty much since I was eight years old people have asked me for Signed Affidavits that This Incident or That Incident or Any Incident Could Possibly Be Racist, but unfortunately those are thin on the ground. I can only offer learning, experience, likelihood, and logic.

If any manager in my company dared say “she interviewed well, but we really want to hire a person of color for this role,” HR would come down on them like a load of bricks.

And yet no one minded over the decades when people said, "she interviewed well, but really want to hire a [White] guy for this role." And in response people will say to me "one piece of giant flagrant bigotry doesn't make up for the past, which, as we all know, is another country anyway." And, well, that's my point.

Edited 2021-12-02 04:29 (UTC)

I appreciate your perspective. I did not mean to imply that one act of bigotry makes up for the past or anything remotely similar.

I’m saying I can understand why LW feels unwanted and unappreciated. LW is burned out, has nobody checking up on them, and hears managers literally say they do not want white people (like LW) for a role.

None of that excuses racist comments like LW saying they will go work somewhere whiter. But I do think it’s time LW work somewhere else.

Por que no los dos. The LW is obviously not capable of doing the DEI work she's in charge of in her current state--just look at the letter.

But I’m on the verge of quitting to work somewhere whiter

This is not something any white person gets to say out loud, outside of a confidential therapist/client relationship. This is a straight up undeniably racist thing to say.

Like ... How can you read that, combined with the LW's burnout and clear frustration that POC at her company are being treated like people and not come away with the impression that LW is an unreliable narrator. (Deliberately?) Misunderstanding conversations about race is right in line with unreliable narratorness.

LW is saying racist things, she stated that she feels frustrated (subtext: that her organization is following through with a commitment to diversity) and defensive (subtext: about her organization making actual meaningful progress toward hiring equity).

She literally reads meaningful progress toward racial equity in hiring as "white employees are damaging" and "I'm no longer wanted/welcome here".

If any manager in my company dared say “she interviewed well, but we really want to hire a person of color for this role,” HR would come down on them like a load of bricks.

Sure, and I spent my twenties working for a company where the owners and HR director colluded to fire people they just didn't like and set up at least one Black employee as The Fall Gal for the owner's embarrassing mistake in front of clients. Said HR director also shared/vented about confidential employee health and discipline information with her friends at the company on the regular. I was one of those friends for a while. It was extremely uncomfortable and inappropriate.

You're assuming a lot with the guess that HR at any given company is 1) competent and 2) non-evil.

Long comment redacted to: I think you are giving way, way too many white people way, way too much unearned benefit of the doubt.

YIKES. It's almost funny how they start with how they feel embarrassed about it and know it's important and then just repeat all the standard threatened majority whining.

Like, as a rule I feel bad for people's suffering, but... "Sorry the fact that being a self-centered terrible human being is making you sad"?

"standard threatened majority whining" -- yes, this. If I had time I'd find a bingo card.

It seems like a kind of identity clash, maybe exacerbated by the political climate. Serving a community one doesn't identify with while one's own community is being pilloried must be hurtful, even when one believes in the mission (and I think LW does, but they're... burned out and lashing out).

I wonder whether part of the problem here is that this person seems to have two jobs at this "large, national nonprofit," nonprofits being notorious for consuming workers in the name of the laudable goals of their work. If "[n]o one is checking in to see how I’m doing or ensuring I want to stay," where is the OP's boss?

I agree with OP's own self-assessment: they're burned out and they should move on. I think they have a lot of complicated, tangled feelings about serving a community they aren't part of while being part of another underserved community, and maybe... they should try working in the community with whichthey identify more for a few years.

Yeah, my reaction to this letter is basically: LW, it does in fact sound like you work in a place that actively wants fewer employees like you, and that's gotta be tough for you, but it also sounds like you work in a place that probably should have fewer white employees, so maybe the best way to serve your work's DEI initiatives is in fact to get a new job.

it does in fact sound like you work in a place that actively wants fewer employees like you

The thing for me is, I have seen, over and over, people claim that initiatives to increase disprivileged group representation are direct attempts to reduce privileged group representation. What I have not seen is any evidence beyond those claims that such initiatives are in fact the "reverse discrimination" they are claimed to be. Do efforts to support POC employees actually add up to attacks on White employees? LW thinsk so but I'm unconvinced.

I mean, I wouldn't say anything described in this letter is an "attack on White employees" or "reverse discrimination", and when white people jump right from this kind of thing to that kind of rhetoric, that's messed up.

But if a white person's employer is saying "we need to increase our ratio of employees of color to white employees" or "we need to increase our racial diversity in hiring", then they are, in fact, saying they want fewer white employees. Like, literally, that is what that means!

That doesn't meant what they're doing is bad, or racist, or even unfair, because a lot of employers *do* need to improve their ratios!

But it's still tough to be constantly hearing "We need fewer people like you around here." Even if you agree with them (especially if you agree with them!) Not as tough as what a lot of POC have to deal with every day, but still tough. And I think it's fair for LW to ask "how do I deal with these feelings of being unwanted?" Some bits of their letter could be phrased better, but they're acknowledging that the feelings are making it tough for them to be fair about this, and they want to know how to stop doing that.

Re-reading my original comment my tone is hard to read, but I wasn't meaning to be sarcastic there. If they're in a nonprofit organization that is serving a 95% POC client base, and their employee base doesn't reflect that, they probably are actively trying to have a lot fewer white employees, and that's probably what they should be doing in order to better serve their client base! Like, I'm not saying LW is ethically obligated to quit or anything, but if the message they're internalizing is that fewer white employees would let the organization be more effective, and they don't have any good counterarguments, then maybe rather than going to a lot of therapy to deal with the cognitive dissonance, they *should* just look for jobs at places that don't have that level of imbalance.

Hmm.

I still feel queasy at saying, "Well, yes, being around POC is clearly bad for you [and that's clearly our fault], go find an organization that doesn't hire us and work there," especially considering what it would indicate about such an organization," but considering the only response I have now is "how do you think we feel? Could you not respond to being unhappy by cultivating becoming racist?", maybe the former would be better advice.

Ugh.

I do think the people in this discussion who have pulled apart being unhappy at working for a nonprofit (famously bad employers in many ways) vs being unhappy with working to improve POC's place in society (in a word, racist) have a good point at the least. Maybe a better piece of advice can be found in there.

Yeah, the way you're saying that is definitely yucky,

But idk, would it still make you queasy if it was phrased at "if the POC around you don't want white people outnumbering them in an org that's about them, maybe you should listen to them for once?"

If what the person is really considering doing is finding an all-white workplace so they don't have to deal with POC anymore that's clearly racist and bad.

But I've seen a lot of thinkpieces lately from antiracist white people that basically follow the narrative "I built my nonprofit career working in organizations that were meant to help communities of color, but I've realized that what I was doing in that job was speaking over the people I though I was helping, so I've moved to working in nonprofits that address racism by trying to change white communities, instead". Like I think that narrative has problems too (that's basically the same thing inside out, "I'm moving to a mostly-white workplace so POC don't have to deal with me anymore"), but if LW is doing the work they describe, they've probably also seen a *lot* of that narrative in the course of their recent work, presented as something admirable and good.

"Well, yes, being around POC is clearly bad for you [and that's clearly our fault], go find an organization that doesn't hire us and work there,"
Yeah, the way you're saying that is definitely yucky,

ahahaa. Yes, I phrased it that way deliberately, but I didn't get that phrasing from thin air -- I think that is what the LW wants to be told, based on statements such as " I engage in so, so many conversations about retaining people of color—increasing their pay, engaging in “stay” conversations with them, being flexible with their hours and work location to ensure they stay with the organization—and no one is having these conversations with me! "

LW actively resents that their nonprofit is helping POC and feels that they are actively losing out because of this . I don't think moving to a nonprofit that "addresses racism by trying to change White communities" is what will satisfy them -- certainly, if they've heard of the idea you described, wouldn't they have mentioned it if that were something they wanted to do? LW sounds like they just don't want to deal with POC as human beings or waste their energy working against racism anymore.

Argh. I feel like I'm failing to convey how threatening I, as a POC, find LW's attitude, nor why I find it so threatening, and that some POC will suffer down the line if I can't get this across. I look at LW's attitude and I immediately cannot help but wonder how LW treats their POC colleagues and clients, if they resent every brown face so much. People are much more porous than we think, and not nearly as good at keeping our attitudes out of our actions as we might want.

Also...

""if the POC around you don't want white people outnumbering them in an org that's about them, maybe you should listen to them for once?""

Aside of communities that are majority POC (which in my ezperience tend to have be gun as places where POC were relegated to when we aren't allowed anyone else) I doubt that we expect to be the majority -- we're literally a minority. I think this compares to the factoid that men think women are "taking over" whenever women are more than 1/3 of a group or say more than 1/3 of statements in a discussion -- majority people view minorities in much the same way. I doubt the POC want to "take over", but rather want to be *heard*.

"If what the person is really considering doing is finding an all-white workplace so they don't have to deal with POC anymore that's clearly racist and bad."

Isn't that what LW says they want, when they say, "But I’m on the verge of quitting to work somewhere whiter" Someplace Whiter will not just have fewer POC by headcount, but by its nature will disprivilege and disempower those POC relative to their White coworkers. That's what LW desires. So I don't think a solution that involves anything good for POC will satisfy LW.

Edited 2021-12-02 05:59 (UTC)

Oh, no, I think you're absolutely conveying your POV well, and why this seems threatening and is angering! I'm sorry if I'm not showing enough empathy to make that clear - I definitely see all the points you're making and I should have acknowledged that more directly.

I think we basically agree anyway - and the people who are saying that LW needs to address the burnout and lack of support issue separately from the diversity one are probably most right.

(I would absolutely be saying very different things if LW was talking about a majority-white organization in a majority-white community. I've lived my whole life in a white-plurality-but-not-majority area - probably similar in demographics to LW's org - and I often need to be kicked in the head to be reminded that most places in the US are in fact still dramatically white majority and it skews the way I experience white privilege here.)

Thank you for letting me know you hear me. :)

I'm so insistent about this stopic because I have seen so many times whhen people blew it off and so helped Awffulnesss to commence. Anyway, I am half asleep but I wanted to acknowledge what you said before I went to sleep.

Yeah, I read into this two things that are pretty tangled up: one, that they're burned out and not feeling supported by their org (and that's definitely something they could talk to managers about, if they felt so inclined and could set aside the second thing); and two, that they're having uncomfortable cultural identity clashes between themselves and the org and the org's mission. LW is conflating the two, and Prudie is as well. That large non-profits have a reputation of chewing people up and spitting them out certainly isn't helping.

That said, the action that LW should take might still be the same - leave the current job and take a break, find somewhere you fit. But I think I'd add to that, figure out what kind of org support you need to thrive in a job, regardless of what population that org serves. And also take some time to understand the difference between organizational burnout and identity burnout. And finally, take some time to really dig deep into intersectionality and being a good ally - this paper is a really good starter for allies: https://urgeoscience.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2021/03/Collectors_Nightlights_and-Allies_Oh-My_White-Mentors-in-the-Academy.pdf

I would more completely agree with you if the two communities under discussion (White Americans vs POC in the US) were in equivalent societal positions or had equivalent societal power. But, well, they're not. That said I don't know whether it would be better for LW to find their ideal all-White enclave or to somehow be faced to confront and admit the individual humanity of POC. Better for LW? Better for the POC they may well hurt? Better for society? I don't know.

wow, that LW is a person who needs to leave immediately! no way LW is effectively doing that (very important) work well when roiling with negativity like that. life is so hard for white people that no one wants (said no one, ever)

I am delighted by the icon onwards. :)

LW needs to separate out

"I am overworked, underpaid, and not feeling valued or supported at work" - a very common experience for staff at nonprofits, who are notoriously underpaid and overworked and expected to do unpaid overtime, and a valid complaint

from

the diversity initiative.

Being overworked, underpaid, unpaid overtime, and not feeling valued or supported at work
are legitimately bad! But they would be bad no matter what the reason.

That doesn't make the diversity initiative not-worthwhile! From LW's description, the diversity initiative is DESPERATELY NEEDED AND DESPERATELY IMPORTANT

It means the management are exploiting their staff [very common for nonprofits]

Wisdom like this is why I post things here. LW needs to separate that out, and so do I, as I could sense there was something going on that my fury at LW's racism was preventing me from seeing. I sarcastically referenced "two wrongs don't make a right" above (not in so many words) but here it actually applies -- LW's nonprofit may be being terrible to them in many ways (that's really, really common) and LW is responding to misfortune by cultivating racism (also really really common).

Thiiiiis.

I admit my eyebrow shot up when I got to "work somewhere whiter", because ... LW is *justifiably* burnt out, but that's about lack of support (and possibly their organization only paying lip service to diversity without actually changing) and not skin color. An all-white place can still be toxic and unsupportive! A place with established diversity can be awesome! LW needs a place where they're not The One Person Responsible For Diversity, but that doesn't necessarily translate to whiter.

Not only why did this white person get this job, but why did any white person get this job that should belong to a BIPOC person. “We need someone to help make our company more equitable and friendly to BIPOC people and include and retain more BIPOC people, so someone white is just the best person to do this job!” The racist denial of the LW is just a reflection of that whole work culture and the twisted logic that maintains it. And I can’t believe the LW is not hurting BIPOC people with this attitude.

LW said, rather poorly for someone in the position they are hired for, that they belong to another marginalized group, and yet it’s their whiteness they are feeling defensive for and not that marginalized identity, which shouldn’t take a whole lot of other words to explain and speak from if they have training in diversity.

LW, you are an active racist because anyone who says I want to be somewhere whiter automatically is. You therefore suck at your job, and somehow no one has noticed yet, because the people above you must also be racist AF white people. I don’t have much hope they’ll actually hire someone BIPOC to do this job because that would make too much sense and will actually help the goal of diversity by one, but you definitely should not be there and need to quit yesterday so you stop doing harm to BIPOC people you interact with.

I'm pretty sure there's a perception among the white people who hired LW that the (white) people they will speak to will take exhortations on the importance of hiring and retaining POC and the active labor required to do so more seriously coming from a white person. Which is both enragingly true (I am constantly exhorting men to speak up about misogyny and toxic masculinity, because God knows men and boys aren't listening to women about it) and proof that there need to be more BIPOC in those positions so those white people learn to listen to them.

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Dear Prudence: "I’m a White Person Who’s Tired of Working on Diversity Initiatives at Work."

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